i tow a lot of hay and firewood w my truck,and i be the first one to say i dont need a 400 hp engine

 

What are these guys comparing it to though?

Had a '02 F150 5.4L 2V & now have an '06 F150 5.4L 3V. Being I tow the jet skis and friends boat here and there, through many mountain passes ranging from 5280ft (Denver) up to roughly 11K ft (Leadville), I've never truly found the 5.4L underwhelming for what it was built to do. Sure it's not the fast powerplant on the road, but it gets the job done with great reliability and ease.

Now rather than a power increase, I think the 5.4L simply needs a better trans (6spd coming) to keep her in the poweband better.

 

I'm comparing it to the competition. If you want to compare it to the 5.3L and then stick your head in the sand, fine. Its very comparable to the 5.3L. Sure the 5.3L will rev at 5500rpm to pull the same trailer up the hill but they'll both get it done. But they offer the 6.0L and the 6.2L both which easily out perform our trusty 5.4L.

The new Ram while it has the motivation, its been positioned for the personal use driver or light tower given its new coil spring rear end. Do you recall the first big comparo when the 04 came out... The titan out accelrated the F150 with 1000lbs in the box and the Ford was empty!

I pull a camper thats 7,000lbs+ and most fo the time I'm fine, but when you get to rolling hills that go on forever, or on a hot day you try to merge into traffic..... Its lethargic. Too heavy.
Will the 6 speed help... YES!
Will 10-20 potential HP help.... YES!
Will dropping some weigh (on all models but the SCrew help)... YES!
But are we competitive with the competitors top V8 offerings..... NO!

I'm as loyal a Ford guy as they come, but I'm not blind. Everytime I or someone else says we want more power we're either given the same old speach about tq, or go buy a toyota then or some other lame stmt. We're allowed to want more power FROM Ford.

 

That's cause expecting to be competitive with the competition makes a few of us the minority... most people here want a 1987 300 I6, with focus mileage, ranger towing and an F150 badge.

 

What are you talking about? I bought mine for towing and it has done a great job. Horsepower is what you brag about and torque is what you use.

 

I understand your frustrations, and admit Ford is behind the competition, never stated they weren't.

A couple items I must point out are, what % of 1500 Silverados/Sierras are sold with the 6.0 vs the 5.3? So far it has been a rare site here in CO.

I also consider the Tundra a daily driver/light tow truck, as I have yet to see a Tundra locally towing anything, let alone a significant load. Sure by the specs they have the ability, but is also a rare site locally.

Hmm, rolling hills aren't anything. Sure it may seem you are slower in these situations, which may be true. But try some of our mountain passes here in CO and they'll make rolling hills look like speed bumps. When you get to these altitudes, you'll notice most gas motor trucks perform a lot worse and any gap between trucks decreases significantly. Sure the 6.0 GM and Tundra 5.7 get up these passes slightly quicker, but it is an insignificant. Biggest thing in these situatins is to turn your O/D off so you're not constantly jumping from 3rd to O/D. Rarely have I had any other gas powered 1/2 ton pull away when locking out of O/D through the passes.

Heat plays into all vehicles, so you also have to take into account the decrease in performance from these other trucks on hot days, just like the 5.4L decreases.

I admit, all those items will help the 5.4L/F150 and by the hp/lb-ft Ford isn't comparable to the other makes top tier V8, but every other aspect is within reason if not better in some areas. Not giving Ford or the 5.4L a pass, but with any make/model vehicle, it's a give and take situation on what you like/dislike or need vs want.

 

I have the '03 King Ranch as my daily driver. It's got the 5.4l with "only" 260 HP. But, I have no compliants on power, although I don't tow anything. I really don't know what I'd do with another 100 HP, as I've never thought of trucks as "race" cars. What I like about the 5.4 is that is develops alot of torque at relatively low RPMs, so it's easy to drive in city traffic. To me, the 5.4 is a very smooth running engine, well suited to use in the truck, and if they just could have made the oil filter and sparkplugs easier to remove then things would be perfect.

 

I dunno, I saw a huge difference between my 2 diff 04s... the reg cab 2wd with 3.73s took the climb from phoenix's 1400ft altitude to 7000+ to flagstaff much easier while towing the mustang on a trailer, than my screw 4x4 w/ 3.55s and big tires and a full bed of camping gear but without towing anything... The screw was probably 2000 lbs heavier than the reg cab, but the reg cab had about 5500-6000lbs behind it... due to the tires; effective gearing would have came out to 3.19 from 3.55... I wish I woulda done the same trip with the mustang behind me, would have been interesting to see the difference in towing... the screw was always much more stable, but a lot slower...

in pickuptruck.com's review of the 3/4 ton gassers, the v10 F250 got wasted on the level race track, but hauled *** in the uphill towing parts, compared to the other 3/4 ton gassers... What's that prove? basically, brute power and gearing make a big difference when the load gets bigger.

 

I'd say the additional weight of the Screw vs Rcab, oversized tires, additional 4X4 weight and only having 3.55 gears is what made the trek so much slower. Put stock tires and the 3.73s in the Screw and I'd venture to guess it'd be very similar to the Rcab, with the Rcab possibly having a very slight advantage.

EDIT: I have heard many people complain about their trucks lack of performance here in CO after putting significantly larger tires on their trucks. The more experienced know they need a gear swap, the lesser do not and usually complain about performance. So I think your biggest issue on the '04 Screw was the tires and not regearing the truck to compensate.

From my days of living in PHX, the treck from PHX to Flagstaff isn't nearly as difficult and hard on the truck as going from say 5K ft to 10K ft. Of course the higher you get, the less oxygen, decreasing your vehicles ability that much more. Heck living at 5280ft, I even get winded when hiking in the 9K-10K ft range. Amazing the difference altitude has on both vehicles and people.

 

yep... On one of the twin cities to phx trips I took the new mexico road through las cruces; went up to about 10k ft, I was empty though, w/ the reg cab. I wouldn't have wanted to tow through there :P

The main point of my last post was basically, the torque multiplication - what you end up with at the wheels regardless if you have a 1000lb of torque motor and 1:1 gears or 250lb tq motor and 4:1 gears, matters quite a bit... We already know Ford won't allow optional lower (higher numerically) gear ratios for whatever reason, so we're left w/ wanting more engine output... If indeed 310/365 is what it'll come out to (kind of doubt they'd leave the torque the same), then they'll be really behind until the diesel comes; since everyone else on the market is in the 400+ torque range.

Also, everyone seems to get caught up in the hp vs torque thing... who cares. hp is a function of torque; people asking for more hp or more tq or whatever simply want the truck to perform better, while towing, or plain being closer if not a bit above the competition... I'd be perfectly happy with 350hp/430tq out of a gasser F150. HP wise it would still be under the competition, but torque wise it would be in the same range if not a bit over... Isn't that how the F150 has traditionally been?

But we all know that's not gonna happen. Had I been able to find a new V10, I'd have been a much happier camper... but oh well.

a 4.6 based 3v v10 would be a good motor for an F150... 5.8 liters and 375/400 (1.25 x the 3v 4.6 numbers) wouldn't be too hard to do, and wouldn't require much development - heads are already there, and mod motors shine when it comes to cyl config... Plus, it would make sense too, it would be the baby brother of the 6.8 V10...

 

With the new 6spd and the low gearing of the trans, hopefully this will/can hold those people wanting more over until the 4.4L and/or 5.0L comes out in the next few years. I also could do with the 350/430 quote, when compared to the competition, that's about where they've always been, on average (less hp but equal if not more lb-ft). That 5.8L sounds interesting, but as we all know, it ain't happening.