An idea has just come to my mind. I have spent 5 days trying to free the dizzy with PB Blaster and tapping but not a budge has it given.

If I modify the rotor (remove the locking tang) and advance it relative to its lock position will I not achieve the same result and save myself a bunch of trouble.

Since the rotor has no load would not some superglue do the trick to hold it ???

This sounds too simple....have I got something here or is it another one of my ideas waiting to be torpedoed??????

 

Nope.....Underneath the rotor you'll see an 8 legged wheel that does the actual triggering of the ignition pulse. You'd have to rotate that wheel and it would be more trouble than it's worth. You'll just have to break that dizzy free.

 

" Since the rotor has no load would not some superglue do the trick to hold it ???"

Therein lies the fallacy. As light and small as it is, that rotor is turning at one-half your tach RPMs, and is under tremendous G-forces.
At even 1,000 RPMs, it is turning 500 times a minute, and you can figure the math from there.
The centripital and the centrifugal forces are so great that the superglue would not be enough to hold it in place.
Further, any glue strong enough to hold it in place would keep you from removing it next time to replace it.

Keep working on that distributor. Break it out if needed; yours won't be the first distributor to come out that way. Besides, the core charge won't be much as they are pretty common.

 

Dennis you have got to get that dizzy loose. Try heating and freezing it. Get a can of spray freeze from you local electronics store. Heat the block with a propane torch and spray the freeze on the dizzy housing until it turns frost white and tap on it until it comes loose. If it doesn't come loose leave the block at normal temp and just try to freeze the dizzy housing. Try everything to get it loose. The darn aluminum dizzy has oxidized and welded itself to the cast iron block. Your only other option is to get another dizzy from a bone yard and break yours out with a hammer piece by piece, but as I said earlier "be careful." I know a guy that actually beat on the dizzy so hard that he broke the dizzy gear off of the front of the camshaft. (His post about the incident, with pictures, is on this website somewhere)

 

Nope...dizzy is still as is but I believe I now understand my engine and I believe it is set correctly. Is there anyone out there with a 1979 460 to validate my logic. Note: it has to be 1979 as 1978 is very different.

Follow through with me on this argument.

It is set at 8 deg BTDC at idle (650 RPM) with manifold vac (NOT ported vac) connected to the dizzy.

I have verified that the correct connection is to manifold vac per the vacuum diagrams if you examine the above thread.

Here is how it works in my opinion. Tell me if you disagree.
At idle you have full vac and timing is at 8 BTDC.

When I hit the throttle the manifold vac drops which causes the timing to retard some from where it is at and this will cause good power as extra gas is pumped in without any fear of pre-detonation.

Once the throttle settles down the vacuum restores and so also does the vac advance which is added on top of centrifugal advance. So at high RPM the vac decrease / increase from a moving pedal just varies the centrifugal advance some and seem to give a good result.

I will admit that I do not know why the radical change in 1979 from the 1978 set up.

One thing on my side is that the truck runs very nicely and I am getting 10.1 MPG on Hiway. It is operating between 195 and 206 deg F (we discussed this W6VVV and it concurs with the accepted norm). The engine sounds good and it is highly responsive. The timing chain slop is about 7 deg which is not bad.

So for the time being I am leaving it as is.

Now Is there anyone out there with a 1979 460 who can tell me where their timing is set at to just backup my rationale? First verify that you are conn to man vac as the chart says and check the idle (650 RPM) timing setting.

Make no mistake about it. This dizzy will only come out if I break it up and the engine is running too good for me to want to go there. I must admit I am curious as hell though and it is hard for me to resist.

Thank all of you great people out there for taking interest in this issue.

 

WRONG! Initial timing is always set with no vacuum (manifold or ported) connected to the dizzy, ever. Normal 460s have ported vacuum to the dist. at idle which gives you no vacuum at idle. Ported vacuum is normal and manifold vacuum is for advancing the timing at idle when the engine gets hot and only then (the temp controlled vacuum switch near the thermostat). You need to find a book on distributors and timing and start reading and stop guessing at theroies to match that someone screwed up on your engine.

 

Bear, with all due respect but would you please reference the vacuum diagram for the 1979 (I have the link previously in this thread) before you form your opinion. My conundrum is to understand why the Ford designers decided to make a radical change from the 1978 to the 1979 model years by going away from a ported vacuum and settling on a manifold vacuum.

Please keep on this very specific point because herein lies the big puzzle.

All of the old Mechanics out there are saying no, it cannot be connected to the MAN VAC. But it is. Check the diagram. Reread the entire thread. I do want to hear your opinion. Do you have a friend with a 1979 460 by any chance?

Thank you.

 

You do not, EVER, set initial timing with any vacuum connected to the distributor. Initial setting is just that, a base, that everything else operate off of and manifold vacuum is different from engine to engine. Vacuum advance is a gas mileage increaser when the engine is under a light load and can use extra advance with out detonation the engine to death and that is why there is ported vacuum. Zero vacuum at idle and then up to manifold vacuum once the throttles are opened. Manifold vacuum is as high or higher than ported vacuum in all cases and at idle it is at the maximum higher.

I don't know what book you are looking at but both my manuals say vacuum is disconnected to set initial timing in both 1978 and 79, actually all years. Also initial timing in 1978 is 12° and in 1979 it is 14° for the 460. I don't find any vacuum hose diagram that is specific for the '78 or '79, but I've never know of a manufacturer who did this manifold vacuum thing you claim. My 1984 460 has both manifold and ported to the dist., but thru a temp switch and the manifold is only used for increased idle speed when engine gets above 210°. I see to reference or a link in this thread to find what you claim is a different vacuum set up for the years you claim. You are still trying to create a theory that lets you not get the distributor free and that just isn't the way it is done.

 

Dennis I think you need to wait until you get the CD on your truck and read the dizzy and emissions section. If the dizzy does go to manifold vacuum you need to plug it before setting the static timing. I think the CD will clarify this for you.

 

Some engines run advance from ported, some run it from manifold. No matter which way it happens to be, though, you always disconnect and plug whatever vacuum source it uses before setting base timing. Like Bear says, if you were to leave the vacuum connected, it wouldn't be called base timing. That is a rule and is set in stone.

I have a '73 Galaxie that runs ported vacuum to the distributor, and a '77 LTD with manifold vacuum to the distributor. I personally don't know the engineering reasons behind either way, I always leave well enough alone and run everything stock. I will tell you, though, that if your base timing is spec'd to be 12 or 14 degrees, then it's highly unlikely you would run manifold vacuum to the advance, because that would leave your timing screaming at idle.

And BTW, I'm sure you've figured this out by now, but the rotor glue trick won't work, because as someone was already pointing out, the distributor would still try to fire at the same interval, only this time your rotor would miss the conductors on the underside of the cap. Plus the glue wouldn't hold anyway...that thing would spin free in no time.

 

FIRE ALL TORPEDO'S!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! that was just crazy talk! the glue idea? whoa?? think of the centrifical force being created there! is you'r motor gummed up inside? try motor flush? or kerosene , it will come loose just be patient with it try the heating + freezeing trick