Oh and read that link very closely, it's an advertisement. Please note the second person quoted he is from Tenneco, well if you read my post in the 60vs 64 thread you will note I said I haul exaust parts to a company that makes these for the three major automakers and international so now you know who I haul too and funny if these are so great why is it they haven't started making them for production yet and they are still trying to change them to make them work? Like I said I deliver to a plant that will be making them and this is what I have heard recently as a week ago.

Edit to add, if these have been used and tested in Europe (which is a lie but won't go there for now, but what europe uses is the same as the Cats on the 6.0s) why is it that they keep sending prototypes for testing and sending in new prototypes for testing and sending in yet another prototype for testing and that was just last week? I mean if they have been tested and work so great they why do they keep having to come up with new prototypes? I am lost here someone please help me.
BTW I saw one of the particulate filters on a vehicle today, it was a class 6 international truck, obviously a test rig, the thing was 3+ft long and about 16" in diameter, the motor in that truck was prbably a 444 (7.3 for those interested) and don't figure the one for the new pickups is going to end up much smaller. Oh one more thing the truck was bieng towed to a repair shop by a wrecker (yep they really do work good)

 

Must have been a poor man's test rig, the last T444E was produced prior to the effective date of the 2004 emission standards.

 

I'm with you, Rob. I live 137 miles East of the Freightliner plant in Portland Or. I have a friend that bought out my tow business and he has been making $$$$$$$ towing new Freightliners back to Portland. He told me one of the drivers told him that 2 out of 3 trucks won't make it to here! Several haven't made it out of town..............I think I'll stick with my "old" diesels


FABMANDELUX.

 

Hmmm thats funny cause the navistar international site still lists it as an option, guess they don't know what engines they still make.

http://evalue.internationaldelivers....p?fFamily=4700



But my point was it was one of the smaller engines like that or the DT466 not one of the class 8 trucks with the bigger diesels.

 

Well the T444e was available in the 4700 International truck but that truck has been out of production for a few years also.

 

Too earlier comments, these DPF filters have been used in europe by car maker , SMALL DIESEL CARS, small diesel engines. Isuzu Japan has had them in production on trucks for about a year now. This is not NEW technology. The class 8 and up stuff that you are seeing are much bigger and made to be serviceable. The light duty(Pickups) stuff that I have seen is not serviceable. When I say serviceable, I mean ASH clean out. The way it stand right now, and will probably change before production, When your DPF filter fills with ash, you will need to replace it,and oh they are making sure that does not happen untill at least 120,000 miles. That is how long the manufatures have to honor the emissions warranty, so it will be customer pay (NEW DPF estimate parts price $1200.)

 

Oh I forgot to mention, this shouldn't be an issue unless farmers are doing over 35 mph, Regeneration will most likely be restrickted under certain instances. With out this resriction, yes that would be an issue. The problem with this restriction, at idle and low speed, soot will still build up, and the way it is currently set up, if the vehicle has not been given the proper criteria to go into regeneration (ie: long idle periods, continuous low speed stop and go)
the driver will be notified(light on dash or information center ) to drive vehicle in a maner so it can go into regeneration, if this is ignored, it is possible to over soot the filter to a point that is can not regenerate on its own, and the vehicle will protect its self by going into a down power mode, or limp home mode. The truck will then need to be taken into the dealer.

 

wow, great info guys.

 

Well I just had an interesting evening, I met a gentleman from Germany tonight (he and I have had dealings on parts on another board and he had business in DesMoines so gave me a call to meet up for dinner) well we got discussing these particulate filters, now his job is enviromental controls in industrial applications and the subject of particulate filters used in europe was brought up, and discussed at length. Well now what I was told was that the "particulate filters" used in europe are NOT the same thing that is bieng pushed on the american public contrary to the belief of many on this board and are not even close, so the "testing" done in europe has virtually no bearing on what is bieng forced on the american public. These filters are as I had learned from a lot of research on the internet and asking questions of people actually involved in various aspects of this are very much different, and very much strictor as well as a LOT more complicated, and prone to clogging, and other problems.

Edit to add. almost forgot about this little tidbit and it fits right in with the article posted above about how you can now follow a diesel and not know it because the smell will be gone. Well in Europe the one thing they hve found with the addition of thier "filter" cat or what ever it actually is, they have to run the engine hotter for it to work (just like the particulate filter we are adding to our vehicles) and this in turn increases the NOx output so now they are talking about adding amonia to the diesel further dilluting it and reducing it's efficency to reduce the NOx emissions created by adding the emissions equipment that they have just put on so know instead of that familar diesel smell you can smell cat pee instead, yeah that sounds like an improvement. get worse fuel economy, and a smell that is much worse while not actually reducing the emissions. Hmmm seems I said something about this in another thread how the EPA is more about keeping thier jobs than cleaning up the enviroment or making this country better, so when this emissions equipment increases another type of emissions we will have ot add or do something different to take care of that one, which in turn adds a different type of emissions which will need the EPA to come up with another "cure" and further reducing the efficency and power of the engines will making us more dependant on foriegn oil, and will create a new emissions issue which will mandate that we create some more additives or equipment. Am I the only one that sees the cycle here?

 

.European DPF are much smaller, and are Non coated catalist "NO WASH CODE"
.The engine only runs hotter durring Regeneration

.NOx reduction (TRUE)
.2011 model year
.No amonia added to fuel
.Eurea injection in the exhaust ( turns to amonia by chimical reaction )
.Will be a separate tank "Will need to be filled like washer fluid".

 

Exactly. The Euro's have taken a different approach to diesel emissions.

Just a thought. Whats stopping a guy from removing the DPF, and "De-sooting" it himself?

 

fonefiddy whats stopping you from doing that is the multiple sensors that will cause a no run situation if they are disabled or out of range. The EPA wanted this to be a untamperable emissions control device.

 

is there any more specific info on the principles of operation for the regeneration process? I work for CAT and our new engines actually have a combustion chamber just downstream from turbo complete with cylinder head, spark plug, fuel lines, coolant lines, and intake air for combustion to make the heat necessary to regen the dpf. i would like to know more about ford's system. wonder what similarities they have. probably not too many.

 

Do you really think that the aftermarket industy will not be able to find a way around these senors? They cannot be that incredibly advanced that no one can figure out how to make them believe that everything is running perfect while they are disabled. Give it a year and look back at this statement you wrote.

 

I didn't mean removing the DPF permanently. I meant taking it off, claning it out and re-installing it.