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Old 05-16-2006, 03:28 PM
Brian S Brian S is offline
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Water as fuel

This almost seems too good to be true....... The story seems legit, but I wonder how long this guy will live if this really does work? (Big oil companies and all)

http://gprime.net/video.php/waterfuel
-------------------------------------

I'm posting this from another forum because I can't articulate a proper answer. I'm playing the Skeptic. Why can't this work?
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Old 05-16-2006, 09:12 PM
aurgathor aurgathor is offline
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In short: BS.

With a bit more details, yes, hydrogen can be used as a fuel, but to get the hydrogen out of water (H2O) you need to put in at least as much energy as you get back by burning hydrogene.

There are certain compounds (i.e. LiH - lithium hydride) that can store hydrogene very efficiently, and the only thing you need to do is add water to get lots of hydrogen gas. However, in this case, the "fuel" is really the LiH, and not the H2O.
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Old 05-16-2006, 09:40 PM
AlfredB1979 AlfredB1979 is offline
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Funny though that these folks ("water as fuel" pimps) praise the lack of CO2 as a plus. Well, last time I checked, our plants that breathe CO2 to make oxygen are now SOL, I guess. The possible water and oxygen exhaust doesn't help the environment in that regard...especially since they are both smog components.

Unless we are dealing with steam, I don't see how water will provide enough energy to go more than a mile or two at a time...maybe an exaggeration, but maybe my dial-up isn't allowing me to see the cheap, abundant, maintenance-free, and perfect side to this.

Okay, now that the whole bit loaded, the guy hasn't run his test car solely on water, as we all realize that FOUR (4) ounces of water won't get you 100 miles as the segment seemed to try to lasso you into thinking. At least not on an engine optimized for gasoline...same deal as with why Ethanol doesn't run as well in a gasser.

The guy's (Klein) website...should be very detailed since he has it patented, of course. But, having a patent doesn't mean you have your spit straight.

http://hytechapps.com/applications/index.html

But, hey, give it to the guy, HHO gas = HOH = H20...and that flame that is hotter than the SUN that burns through that magically impervious piece of charcoal! Wow, like wouldn't you have to be 93 million miles away from that to be a bearable flame???

Also, the army has 2.5-ton trucks with diesels that CAN run on water or any other liquid out there. There is hardly good fuel to be found in war zones...big whoop! My truck runs on water as well, though not too well, since it's mainly condensation mixed into the gas. Ooops. Four ounces in 4-5 gallons, big hairy deal.

Thanks for the bit....shows that my local Faux affiliate in Houston will bite on anything.

Google Aguygen, Denny Klein, HHO gas....it's nothing new.
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Old 05-16-2006, 11:18 PM
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Just another form of energy conversion. For some reason my computer wont load the video but I got the general idea from his website.

If you think you can have a device in the trunk performing electrolysis from the vehicles electrical system, and only add water and go, you're very mistaken.

The correct way to do this without ultimately making environmental factors worse, would be to have a truely HUGE field of solar cells and wind generators, powering the hydrogen plant, electrolysis and all. Of course then, all the black solar panels would probably heat up and contribute to global warming.

OBTW, diesels cannot run on water. Simply no BTU's there. Zero. None. No combustion. If anything, the water would cool down the air inside the cylinder and cause negative pressure after TDC, slowing down the engine faster than it would otherwise. Engines can tolerate a certain amount of water in the incoming air / fuel. Sometimes it is beneficial, like in a high compression gasoline motor to avoid knock and ping on hot days. But usually it's a disadvantage.
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Old 05-16-2006, 11:31 PM
aurgathor aurgathor is offline
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Here's an interesting tidbit:
"He said he plans to take Hydrogen Technology, which now has private investors, public in the first half of 2006."

I feel sorry for those investors -- they should've learned some physics before investing in something that looks like even beyond a perpetuum mobile. I'd interested in his shares, but I want to short them.

Last edited by aurgathor; 05-17-2006 at 12:04 AM.
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Old 05-16-2006, 11:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rusty70f100
The correct way to do this without ultimately making environmental factors worse, would be to have a truely HUGE field of solar cells and wind generators, powering the hydrogen plant, electrolysis and all. Of course then, all the black solar panels would probably heat up and contribute to global warming.

Not to mention the energy taken out of the air by the wind generators would probably have serious global repurcussions.
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Old 05-17-2006, 07:47 AM
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Hey, We could add a fifth wheel and hook it to a generator to do the electrolysis!!! I am sure you have all seen pictures of those test vehicles running around with a fifth wheel out back. Maybe the government is secretly testing this and is withholding the technology from the public because Cheney and Bush are in cahoots with big oil??? The "fifth wheel" technology would unload the vehicles electrical system! I have heard of semi's using a "fifth wheel" so maybe the big freight lines are already using this technology... Nevertheless to really do things right we could add solar cells to the top surfaces of the car (don't forget the dashboard), some of those college teams have been secretly testing this technology. But the real kicker would be a wind turbine to help out! Whenever I drive the wind is always blowing the wrong way, either I get a headwind which would spin the wind turbine real fast or a side wind that would really make it go also! Just think of the power generated when a semi passed you! There is probably enuf room to have three wind turbines on top maybe even more if a mast or two were fitted to the vehicle. The wind turbine blades would probably have to be limited to 96" in diameter but then I have heard that 102" wide is legal now in the US. Unfortunately bridges and overpasses would have to be redesigned but the effort would probably be worth it. With masts we could even use sails for those rare occasions we get a tail wind or even one from ~45° to each side. With this setup a smart vehicle owner could probably make fuel and sell it to other motorists!

Remember you saw this idea here first! Integrating these technologies is a big breakthrough! My patents are being filed as you read this. How many of you want stock in my new company (BST)??? I would have to talk to the SEC but I think an IPO at $100/share with an initial offering of a million shares for 30% of the company would be about right! I think it would only be fair to offer Ken 10% of the company since this is his forum...
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Old 05-17-2006, 10:40 AM
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Either way it gets done, there's still the law of conservation of energy. There's no free ride. a fifth wheel generator and wind turbines would create drag and other losses meaning you would get out less than what you put in. Unless you go from water to hydrogen to some sort of mini nuclear reactor.

Is this what you mean by a fifth wheel on a semi: http://www.alamy.com/stock_photograp...es/ADAT65.html
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Old 05-17-2006, 11:40 AM
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I'm certain Torque1st was posting that tongue-in-cheek.

Here's what I posted on another board about this exact same video:

Hope it works. Some things I noticed in the video though:

1. HHO? H20? Ok so he's splitting water molecules. The gas coming out has the same content as water. Nothing new there.

2. It makes no sense that the flame would change temperature if it's touching something. If it's burning, it's burning. The temp of combustion should remain constant.

3. I couldn't get a good look at the torch, but I wonder if it has an additional Oxygen line. The standard cutting torch does. The reason is that there are 2 uses for the oxygen. first is to burn the acetylene more efficiently at a higher temperature. Second is to inject excess oxygen in the flame to cut with. A cutting torch does not melt metal apart. It rusts it apart. You heat metal to red hot, hit it with a blast of oxygen, it turns to iron oxide and falls away, effectively cutting the metal.

4. He states the tip stays cool. So what? Look closely at the flame. The flame is not touching the tip. It is being blown off the tip and combustion is occurring off the torch. Of course the tip is cool. No fire on the tip and a cooling gas is running through it. Parlor Trick.

5. It seems that if the generator is creating a gas made of HHO, that gas is combustible -- anywhere. IE, if a combustible mixture is in a tank, the tank can explode. Why doesn't the gas burn back into the torch, up the line and into the tank? I'm guessing that the machine produces hydrogen gas and oxygen is introduced to the torch from a bottle.

I saw plans for something similar to this. An electric current was passed through an aluminum rod that sparked to ground under water. The electric reaction caused the water molecule to split, the oxygen bonded with the aluminum creating aluminum oxide that sank to the bottom of the tank, and hydrogen. A low current, high voltage spark was used (think automobile ignition). I have no clue at the power input vs power output ratios. Will be interesting to watch.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian S
This almost seems too good to be true.......
That's usually all you have to say, right there.

Last edited by 76supercab2; 05-17-2006 at 11:45 AM.
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Old 05-17-2006, 04:24 PM
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Hey furball! -Gotcha! -hehe
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Old 05-17-2006, 04:39 PM
Brian S Brian S is offline
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"Quote:Originally Posted by Brian S
This almost seems too good to be true.......

That's usually all you have to say, right there."
--------------------------

Actually someone else said it, I just reposted it here because the guy was looking for an intelligent reply but was getting a lot of off-topic discussion. Here's the link.

http://www.hotrodders.com/forum/water-fuel-89448.html
It will link back to here again like a perpetual thread.
Where have I heard that word before?
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Old 05-17-2006, 04:50 PM
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Whenever gas prices or energy costs go up the con artists come swarming out of the woodwork to suck as many $$$ out of the wallets of the gullible as possible. It happens every time...
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Old 05-17-2006, 08:55 PM
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Why is it that Fox always gets suckered into the phoney baloney? Didn't they buy the video of Sasquatch and spread a bunch of hype that they were going to air it, then it was completely out of focus and it could have been a guy in a dark suit from 4 miles away.
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Old 05-18-2006, 06:06 AM
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STUFF -happens!

I especially liked the: "Just think of the power generated when a semi passed you!" bit... -hehe

Now watch, someone will be offering windmills for cars to generate power on Ebay next week... Just connect them to the battery to back feed the electrical system and reduce the power robbed by the alternator thus saving fuel...

Geez, I think I should go into business writing Infomercials! A good start for BS Technologies...

Hmmm seems parts of the name may already be in use:
http://www.bstglobal.com/
http://www.bst.com/

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Old 05-29-2006, 03:35 AM
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Heres an intelegent reply:
Now what say that it isn't as efficient as he's tauting it to be but actualy has figured out a wa to amplify the inputted energy (the cutting torch 2000 box has a cord) to the point where hes freeing up the hydrogen more efficiently than previous methods. though not perfect that might yield a feul Hydrogen supply.
I do conceid though that they did not explaine the cracking process he's using in enough detail to get my investment dollars. For all that we saw of his system in the car there might be a bank of batteries supplementing the proccess which must be charged after a trip thus grabing power from the local utility and making it only a hybrid car not truely water only. That is basicly the way the feul cells work. A charge is applied to the ceramic cell and liquid water pumps into the cell and is cracked and filtered kinda allowing mostly only the hydrogen passed into the system.
According to the May issue of Popular Mechanics pg 81 states "it takes about 17 kwh of electricity, wich costs $1.70, to make just 100 cubic feet of Hydrogen. That amount would power a feul cell vehicle for 20 miles." this also requires a compression system and a 5000psi tank. they say we wont see a production car till 2020.
I think the only way you might achieve an efficient h20 only car would be to use exotic materials like superconductors and other yet undeveloped products.
For today B100 biodiesel, M85/methanol and E85/ethanol are the fuels I would bank on to be running america for at least the next 25-50 years.
Hopefully our grand kids will have Hydrogen power that works but I wouldn't buy into the hh20 2000 just yet. Patroleum may provide more horse by the gallon but its like slowly cutting the rope thats keeping you from falling off the side of the mountain. In the long term it won't meet our growing demands and the cost is just too high.
John
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Old 05-29-2006, 03:35 AM
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