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Old 01-24-2006, 08:49 PM
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f250juggernaut
Mixing #2 and WVO

The vast majority of the posts here cover either making/using biodiesel or doing a conversion to run VO. Why isn't there any discussion of simply mixing the WVO into the #2?

Seems like it would be a no brainer with no added costs at all other than some sort of strainer/collection point, a pump and a good in line filter. How much VO can be mixed before the cold weather charicteristics of the oil becomes a problem?

Or am I just stupid for asking?
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Old 01-24-2006, 09:06 PM
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I have seen others ask over on the dramastop, but never really get a clear answer. Best I have gathered is a possible problem with veggie and dino separating. I haven't been over there for a while, so haven't really seen anything on it lately. One of the members was conducting a test to see on the separation issue. I did a bit of a test a while back, and on mine, at 50/50, the veggie did separate. I hadn't played with it since then.
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Old 01-24-2006, 09:16 PM
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Some place that never goes below 70 would be a great place to blend. Probably as much as 50/50. I've read a few threads on blending but since it was not the biggest savings possible I never paid to close attention.

Some guys blend 70% WVO/VO 10% Regular Unleaded gas (RUG), & 20% #2 Diesel.

Again it really all depends on your temps.

Since I always have diesel that is almost 100% (I get some inter mixing as I switch back from WVO) I never have to worry about temp. Once my truck is up to temp I switch on my electric Vegtherm and off I go.

By the way no such thing as a stupid question.

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Old 01-24-2006, 09:59 PM
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An old timer mechanic once told me the only stupid question was the one you did not ask.
His reasoning was if you ask a question you are trying to learn something you do not currently know. Learning something new is never stupid.

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Old 01-25-2006, 07:06 PM
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f250juggernaut
Thanks all. I'm not really thinking as much as 50/50. I'm thinking along the lines of 30% or less...just enough to add some lubricity.

It rarely gets below freezing here....but does occasionally dip into the 20's. Anybody think I would have any problems with....let's say 5 gallons of WVO in the #2 tank?

Will the fuel and oil mix just dumping it into the tank? I have a regulated return system, so there should be a small but constant agitation at the bttom of the tank....and it also warms the fuel a bit more than the stock fuel system did.
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Old 01-25-2006, 08:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cookie88
Thanks all. I'm not really thinking as much as 50/50. I'm thinking along the lines of 30% or less...just enough to add some lubricity.

It rarely gets below freezing here....but does occasionally dip into the 20's. Anybody think I would have any problems with....let's say 5 gallons of WVO in the #2 tank?

Will the fuel and oil mix just dumping it into the tank? I have a regulated return system, so there should be a small but constant agitation at the bttom of the tank....and it also warms the fuel a bit more than the stock fuel system did.
Scott: a simple test you can do at home; Take a 1 liter coke bottle, and add 1/4 WVO, 3/4 diesel, and shake vigorously for 1 min. Let stand, check often, you will be amazed how quickly it will seperate! WVO is heavier than diesel and will sink to the bottom of the tank. I"ve tried it to 10 percent and it will still seperate at 60 deg overnight. The two just don't like to mix. Better to go with a heated WVO two tank system, or Biodiesel.
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Old 01-26-2006, 08:53 PM
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f250juggernaut
Well darn....Ok, Thanks for the info FABMAN. I may try it at some higher temps too...see if maybe it would be workable in the summer. From May to November it almost never gets below 60. Plenty of 100+ days all summer long.
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Old 01-26-2006, 10:38 PM
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Cookie,

Hey follow Fab's advice go with Bio!! Course you already know I am bias towards using Bio anyways.
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Old 02-12-2006, 01:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cookie88
The vast majority of the posts here cover either making/using biodiesel or doing a conversion to run VO. Why isn't there any discussion of simply mixing the WVO into the #2?

Seems like it would be a no brainer with no added costs at all other than some sort of strainer/collection point, a pump and a good in line filter. How much VO can be mixed before the cold weather charicteristics of the oil becomes a problem?

Or am I just stupid for asking?
What you are asking can be explained but will require either an understanding of Organic Chemistry or just accepting certain facts on faith.

A Vegetable Oil (VO) molecule is made up of a glycerin molecule with 3 hydrocarbon molecules attached. It sorta looks like a capitol E with the glycerin being the vertical bar and the three horizontal bars are the hydrocarbons (altho the horizontal bars would be much longer)

Dino diesel is a mixture of hydrocarbon molecules having an average composition of C12H26. The various hydrocarbons that form Dino Diesel are similar enough in molecular weight that they don't seperate if allowed to stand.

The process of making Bio Diesel seperates each VO molecule into its' 3 hydrocarbon molecules and 1 glycerin molecule. The glycerin is removed leaving a mixture of hydrocarbon molecules that has an average composition of C12H26 (look familiar) there are some chemical differences between Bio and Dino but their physical properties and molecular weight make them interchangable in use. Since Bio and Dino are of similar molecular weight a mixture of the two will not seperate if allowed to stand

Since each VO molecule is roughly 3 times the weight (remember it's 3 hydrocarbon molecules hooked to a glycerin molecule) of a Dino or Bio molecule they will seperate fairly quickly into layers.

I realize there are some technical discrepencies in the terminology I used but I did so to avoid getting bogged down in a chemistry lesson


Cookie I hope this answers your question
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Last edited by Phydeaux88; 02-12-2006 at 02:06 AM.
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Old 02-24-2006, 07:37 PM
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You can use WVO mixed with various thinning agents, usually kerosene, in most diesel engines. It must be carefully filtered. See "From the Fryer to the Fuel Tank" for details. The book has an entire chapter on running a diesel on WVO/kerosene. Mixing this fuel with diesel should not present a lot of problems at normal temps. The thinning agent will still keep the WVO in solution when mixed. There may be effects on the fuel system components and injectors because the WVO is more acid than diesel or straight unused VO. But, you still have to buy the thinning agent and the cost is not appreciably less than making your own BD, and you still have to filter everything no matter what fuel you use.
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Old 02-24-2006, 08:24 PM
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You can run straight WVO but it comes with some problems
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Old 02-24-2006, 08:24 PM
 
 
 
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