I've been told by a couple of guys that I work with that you can put a set of 351 Cleveland heads on a 302. To make it work, you have to put some special spacers between the heads and the intake manifold to make up the difference in the size of the heads.

According to them, it is supposed to be similar to a Boss 302 engine.

Are there any advantages to this compared to reworking a set of stock 302 heads?

Or would rebuilding and installing a 351W or 460 be more cost effective. I'm not building a hauler or a tow truck. I am more interested in drag racing on a budget.

I like to make the most of what I already have before I move on to a new engine or something. I sort of like the learning experience.

I know the 302 is pretty hot in the Mustangs but mine just doesn't seem to have the torque it needs to get my truck off the line quickly enough. It does pull pretty hard on the top end though.

Has anyone else ever heard of this swap?

 

yes it is possible... U have to block a couple water passages and you can get adapter plates for the intake or im sure they make a boss intake... my uncle runs a windsor in his race car with cleveland heads.. its pretty potent.... but in my opinion i think a good set of GT-40 heads would be just as good.... I would go with the 302... maybe find a mustang donar for the 302.. 85 model up (roller engine) they are pretty plentiful... but if you want to run your 302 a dual plane aluminum intake, a cam and set of headers and dual exhaust will really pep it up..

 

Yea you can put the cleveland heads on a 302 block but you have to use 2 barrel heads and a special manifold a lot of machine work to get a engine that is much like the boss 302 which was a High reving road racing engine which didn't like running on the street when ford built them in 69 & 70 So The ? is do you what to spend alot of $$$ on a engine that may not give you the type of proformance you want can't beat cubic inches for more power

Old enough to Know better but still young enough to have fun.

 

The cleveland series engine had its thermostat in the block and the windsors had it in the manifold. To do a swap involves welding up water passages and drilling new ones. I think you'll find more help on the 351c/m forum.

mike

 

yeah, she'll be darn near impossible to get to run right on the street... you can buy aftermarket cleveland heads for beefed up 302's, but putting one on a stock 302 or anything less than a wild 302 would be a pain in the perverbial ****.

 

Hmmmm... Sounds like the Mustang heads would be the better choice. This is Mustang country here, so it might be a little difficult to find a donor. I rarely ever see one in the wrecking yard around here.

If I used the roller heads, would I have to use a roller cam or could I use whatever camshaft I chose. I've never been into any of the newer 302's so I don't know what the valve train looks like.

 

[updated:LAST EDITED ON 04-Apr-02 AT 06:51 AM (EST)]If you put Cleveland heads on a 302 you will have no low end torque whatsoever. They are too big. That setup was intended for Trans Am racing where they wound the motor up over 8 grand. Theres roller blocks but no such thing as roller heads. The heads off a roller era motor are the same old pedestal rocker, huge combustion chamber, smog heads of no particular significance. If you were to come across some GT 40's that would be different.

The best thing to do for low end torque is just rebuild your stock heads and get a pulling cam. Going to heads with somewhat smaller combustion chambers might help the push a little because of increased compression but then you are probably looking at having to run 93 octane. Any heads you would get that have significantly bigger valves and bigger runners will take away from the low end or more accurately they increase the top end ability of the motor(same difference).

Ok I went back and re-read your post again, LOL. The only way to get a small cube motor like a 289 or 302 to go is open up the top end, put low gears in it and a big stall or if you have a manual tranny you want to be leaving the line at around 4500 to 5000 rpms. With a heavy ***** of a truck like these things are just go get a big block or build something like a 427 stroker. You won't ever get a small cube motor like a 302 to run really fast in one of these heavy trucks. For drag racing you would still want to lighten it up as much as possible. Somebody makes a whole fiberglass bed and tilt glass front end for trucks.

 

WL,
There is no substitute for displacement. The 302 is a great motor but, too small to drag race in a ford truck. I know I've been doing it for 10 years +.
If your looking for a hot setup, purchase a set of 5.0 explorer castings. They can be purchsed through PAW. They are dirt cheap and can be altered to your specific needs. They flow more than any 351W ever built. You can put oversized chevy valve in them for a reasonable price and get even more flow. If you choose this you can still choose from every intake system availble for the 302. Unlike this Cleveland fiasco. I know, i tried it about ten years ago and ran out of money. You don't have to weld anything shut the head gasket will block those openings but you will have to drill to new water jacket openings, one in each heads. Then there's the intake problem. These semi-new shim solution doesn't seem like a good idea to me. Check out the explorer GT40 castings. I think there about $123.00 a piece.
Good Luck, Have fun,
KingFisher
P.S. Find a 460, convert it to a 429 and your good to go.

 

If you’re really set on doing this, check out a company called Clevor, they have intakes and everything else to do the conversion.

Personally, I think it will be a dog on the bottom-end. You need more cubes to pull that sucker off the line. There’s no substitute for cubic inches, get a Windsor or something bigger.

Barry

 

I'm not dead set on keeping the 302, I would just like to at least keep something that is reasonable to work with. The 302 has a lot of aftermarket support, so I was sort of interested in working with it.

The Cleveland head idea is really starting to sound like a nightmare. Thanks for the advice on that.

Just to let everyone know that I am not completely off my rocker for wanting to drag race an F150. I was at the track a couple of weeks ago and one of the Ford Lightning clubs was there and they were clicking off some pretty amazing times. I don't know if they were stock or not, but I will say that they hurt some Camaro and Mustang feelings pretty bad while they were there.

It gave me the bright (or dumb) idea of wanting to keep up with the Lightnings. We're all part of the same family, right?

I saw a 460 with an automatic transmission for sale in the Thrify Nickel the other day for $400.00. Would this be a better solution? I know they are torque monsters, but what about aftermarket support?

Also, I've never heard of the fiberglass parts for 73-79 trucks. It sounds very interesting. Do you know a source for them?

Bottom line is, I want to go kick some Camaro butt too!

 

Ooops! dfisher, I missed your P.S. I do believe you answered my question before I asked it.

 

>I'm not dead set on keeping the 302, I would just like to at
>least keep something that is reasonable to work with. The
>302 has a lot of aftermarket support, so I was sort of
>interested in working with it.
>
>The Cleveland head idea is really starting to sound like a
>nightmare. Thanks for the advice on that.

The best Windsor/Cleveland "hybrid" is the 351W block fitted with 351C heads (from a 351C with 2-barrel carb, NEVER from a 4-barrel engine). The ideal heads for the project are the "Australian" Cleveland heads - smaller ports for better torque and street manners, combined with the superior combustion chamber design of the "4v" heads. They are available, but they ain't cheap.

Also, remember that with Cleveland heads, you have to change to Cleveland (or Boss) type pistons - also pricey, as pistons go. If you're doing a complete overhaul anyway, this isn't such a big deal, but otherwise that alone makes the project cost-prohibitive.

There were intake manifolds manufactured under the "Street Boss" name by B&A (IIRC), and I have heard that the manifold was again available - perhaps the "Clevor" company name in an above post is the new source. Like everything else about this project, the manifold is expensive.

When B&A began casting those manifolds (which only work with the Cleveland 2-barrel heads' port size, FYI), there were no good aftermarket Windsor heads. Then, along came a large selection of aftermarket heads for the 302 and 351, effectively killing the market for Cleveland head swaps.

Now that you know the downside, let me just say that despite all the aggravation and expense, the Cleveland-headed Windsor blocks are absolute screamers. The 351W has enough cubic inches to make use of the canted-valve heads' breathing ability and it's certainly better under the hood of a pickup. Some interest in that swap has been rekindled, mainly because people want to do something "different". It really comes down to what you want to spend.




>Bottom line is, I want to go kick some Camaro butt too!

Nuthin' wrong with that! If you decide to look for late-model heads for your 302, be sure to avoid the 1986 5.0 pieces - bad design. 1987 and later are *much* better. Don't overlook the GT-40P heads found under the hoods of Explorers and Mountaineers... you'll need headers specific to those heads, though, due to a change in spark plug location.

HTH... Go surprise a Camaro.