I am looking for instances that our members have used the "Magnuson Moss" card and have won. Reason being I have just dropped off my 04' for the wiring harness recall I had mentioned to my service guy that I have been dealing with for all warranty/recalls since I have owned it that my wife bought me a 4"MBRP turbo back system for my birthday.His eyes about popped out of his head and said DO NOT INSTALL!!!!! He would have to void all warranty issues that will be involved for the engine/turbo/ECM and all sensors from that point on. So I remembered and mentioned the Magnuson Moss Act he said Ford does not recognize the Magnuson Moss and is not valid?? Well needles to say my exhaust will be delivered this afternoon via UPS. So I am asking for some real life instances on how the Magnuson Moss has won for some of us. To bad we dont or maybe we do have some legal counsel that are FTE members for them to review and explain the act for all of us to understand.

Help and Thanks

 

I'm no lawyer, but what the act says is that if you use parts that meet Ford specifications those parts won't affect your warranty. If you use parts that don't meet Ford specs, such as chips, programmers, larger exhausts, etc., then you are on your own for repairs.

If you change the way the vehicle operates you can eliminate your warranty coverage.

And Ford can't ignore the M-M act. It's law. But that doesn't mean that you can change anything you want on your truck and retain your warranty.

That's my $0.02, and probably not even worth that much.

 

Do a search in this forum and the superduty forum for the word warranty and there is a lot of discussion about this act. I will say this about the act. The act serves basically two purposes. It forces manufacturers that offer a warranty to spell out the exact terms for the warranty. It doesn't mean the manufacturer has to offer a warranty, it just means that if they do offer a warranty they have to be clear about what will be allowed, and what won't be allowed under the warranty, to get warranty work done. So read your Ford warranty booklet carefully. The second purpose of the act is to make it clear to manufacturers that they cannot force the consumer to have to buy only their replacement parts. The second part is what aftermarket parts makers are usually refering to when they state that using their parts won't void your warranty. They've simply classisfied their part as a replacement part, not a performance part. Your warranty will tell you whether or not Ford can deny a warranty claim because of a specific part change, like an MBRP exhaust. This of course has nothing to with your issue. Your issue is that the dealership is refusing to perform a federally mandated safety recall. Safety recalls have nothing to do with warranty work. Even if your vehicle is out of warranty, you can still take it to any Ford authorized service center and they have to do the safety recall service at no charge. Don't waste your time fighting with that dealer, just go to another one. Wow! what a long post.

 

IMO: The M & M Act works great in theory and in court. However, outside the direct influence of the court it is pretty much worthless in day to day practice.

The threat of M & M means nothing to the Big Guns and they challenge it all the time.

It can only be enforced thru the courts. It's not like you can call MM911 and the warranty police come rolling up to the dealership.

It may seem magical and unique to the vehicle owner with a problem but, the dealers and mfgs hear it all the time. Probably have lunch bets on when someone is going to try to use it as a silver bullet.

In fact my theory is, act don't threat. Threats just makes them bow up and probably get a stop-action out of just making the comment.

 

kw what is "IMO"?

 

IMO = In My Opinion.

 

Find another dealer and asked their opinion on it the subject. I visited a local dealer for an oil change and was talking with the GM while I waited. He has an 2005 King Ranch (like I do) and was interested in my mods, As we were talking and walking over to his truck, I noticed he had an 4"MBRP turbo back system with a 5 inch tip. I told him my interest in getting one but listed my warrenty concerns. He said not to worry and he would honor the warrenty if I proceeded with getting one. We walked over to the service manager and discussed this even further. So I as seriously considering getting one soon. It sounds great.

Just my $0.02

 

Well thank you all for your input on my dilema. I did call another dealer asked if they meaning "Ford" had a "performance" exhaust system for the powerstroke 6.0 available.
He said not at this time I then asked about a 05 Mustang Ford motorsports exhaust he said "sure we have for the Mustang" he then explained that it was a header back system or they can get "performance headers" from an outside vendor. I thanked him for the Mustang info and mentioned that I would find aftermarket exhaust for the powerstroke. Then he also said that it would void the warranty..I asked why he said it was not original equiptment and that is grounds for void. I got him!!! I then through the Mustang system back at him and told him to truly explain why it is perfectly fine to purchase a "Ford" performance item and it wont void the warranty but if you have a 2nd party mfg on it the warranty is then void. He said it is FORD performance items that are mfg by FORD ..I called BS on that I said that my brother has a 04' mustang and his Ford motorports exhaust headers and all are the exact BORLA exhaust system that anyone could by and $100 less than at Ford. Mysteriously the phone went dead after that.

 

One item has been over looked here. The dealer or Ford for that matter can not void anything until they PROVE the change you made is harmful to the operation of the vehicle.
Don't listen to a dealers personel as they are only repeating rumor or whatever. A dealer would be very stupid to attempt an act like this as they don't want a lawyer to appear. An OEM could and would refuse to cover your new exhaust, but thats about it. I haven't had a single dealer or oem rep attempt to void a warrantee due to a change. Tuners or little boxes are another story. They can and will remove your warrantee because the tuner either disables or modifies the factory parameters.
As for meeting factory specs. Thats easy to do with a SS exhaust.
Ask the tech this question- When was Ford given the authority to over ride a congressional act of Law?
So yes, the M & M act is a very effective tool to help protect the buying public. As another poster mentioned, don't threaten, if they want to play games get a lawyer and watch how fast they change there tune.

Wekiwa

 

The civil courts are full because in most cases you have to litigate to enforce civil law.

The M & M act means nothing 'til the judge says so. The burden of proof is on you to prove that the M & M act was trampled on.

Yes, I believe that Big Gun Mfg should have to provide warranty evasion specifics upon denial. What and precisely how a part or function was broke. Then, how it justifies abating an entire warranty.

Unfortunately, we can talk all day about how a programmer cannot void an entire warranty when the wipers quit working...but, in practice this is what the mfgs do. They have lawyers all over the country and this is what they pay 'em for. Right or wrong...that's the way it is.

I only repeat this because it would be a dis-service, to people here, for them to think that all you have to do is wave the M & M Act flag...and all will be right with the world. Quite often, the opposite is true.

So moral to my story...Be ready for the consequences and if you are gonna do it...do it large.

It's like I have taught my kids all their lives. Draw the line in the sand when you must. But when you do, be fully prepared to defend your side of the line.

Tomorrow's lecture will be on...........

 

Please share the name and location of the 'good' Dealer, I hope it's near me!
Thanks,
Russ

 

I have had my EGR, Thermostat and Head gaskets replaced all under warranty with a Banks, AFE intake and a 6" lift. Mech/Ford never questioned any of it. In fact that always said any other problems bring it back and nice truck. I'd find another dealer.

 

As stated many, many times, the warranty / mod relationship is very dealer dependent.

 

A cat back exhaust with functioning muffler would be one thing, but a turbo back exhaust that eliminates the turbo is a completely different thing.

Is that what you are talking about with your turbo back exhaust, does it elminate the turbo? If so then you have two problems on your hands. First, it is a Federal violation to tamper with smog systems and the dealer could get all in a twitter about that. Second, they can claim that the reduction in back pressure without the cat could cause damage to the turbo.

Lots of folks are running cat back systems just fine but some have had problems with the turbo. Then too, some people running a totally stock truck have had problems with the turbo as well. Given that, can Ford claim that the damage is due to the turbo back exhaust - well sure. Can they prove it in court? Probably to the satisfaction of a judge or jury who aren't mechanically inclined.

Ford will be banking on the fact that you don't want to spend thousands of dollars fighting them in court. It's a big hit to your wallet win or loose (unless you are awarded legal fees too). For Ford it is money well spent. They know that you will probably tell a bunch of people about the whole ordeal and those people will think twice about doing mods and dealing with potential loss of warranty coverage.

In the end, the gains for a turbo back exhaust, with or without cat, versus a cat back exhaust are so modest that it does seem hardly worth all the extra hassle.

 

Thanks again everyone who have reponded to this ishas really opened my eyes about the issue. Daryl your reply is almost verbatum of what the 3rd dealer said to me about a turbo back system. I already ordered the turbo back system from Mark at DPP and ups dropped it off yesterday. I spoke to Mark told him my issue that has come up since ordering it. He is first rate guy he is letting me use he cat back portion on the system and I can send the extra stuff to him and wont hit me with any restock charge. Now that is service and understanding!!! Or I could just hang on to it until my warranty is up and install the rest. Again he is very understanding.
I spoke to a guy at the gas station near the dealership with a 04' also he was leaving the same time as I was he was in for the same recall work. He told me that he spent 2 days putting his back to stock so he could bring it in. A little bird told him that Ford is on the war path trying to find any possible way not to do any of the recall/warranty work on any diesel powerplant if it has any mods on it. So it's sounds like a old fashioned "speed trap" or "Drug Bust" ..............