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  #1  
Old 09-12-2004, 08:52 PM
peterjeff peterjeff is offline
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Biodiesel/Vegetable Oil

I've noticed recently some posts with biodiesel/veggie oil references. Thought I'd weigh in as I am getting ready to convert my 85 F250 to WVO (Waste Vegetable Oil). I am using a combination of a heavy duty filter heated by waste engine heat that was designed primarily for big rigs as a sort of pre-filter (Vormaxx made by Racor) and an electric-powered heater just before the injectors. This is in order to thin out the veggie oil as it otherwise much too heavy to circulate through the injection pump. I am using a dual-tank set-up, starting on diesel/biodiesel then switching to WVO after a minute or two, and shutting down the same way. Because of the electric heater I don't need to wait for 15 minutes while the engine heat heats up the oil. I will install a "Forgot to Purge" buzzer that reminds me to purge the WVO out of the lines if I'm going to shut down for more than 3 hours. The system was designed by a firm called Neoteric Biofuels (http://www.biofuels.ca); the kit runs $700. A little spendy up front but if you think of fuel costs... Once I set up contacts at restaurants to collect their used fryer oil (they otherwise would have to pay to have it hauled away) I will be driving on free fuel! (There are also places around collecting & selling filtered WVO for 80 cents/gallon.) A friend of mine has converted his '99 Cummins and he says it runs great.
I am in Berkeley in CA; quite a few folks running these systems, which are a far cry from the plastic tank in the trunk wrapped in heater hose leaking oil.
So far no penalties for running the stuff out here - we'll see if that lasts.
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Old 09-12-2004, 11:23 PM
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Wink

Sounds like a good savings. Just put some of it in the bank so you can give it to the pump shops later for a new pump and injectors.
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Old 09-14-2004, 07:23 AM
ctbiodzl ctbiodzl is offline
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Sounds like a good setup. Others have gone 50,000 miles on similar dual-tank systems w/o problems. Have you been to biodiesel.infopop.cc, the SVO forum?
Lots of F-250 conversions there.

The only F-250 problems I've read about has been rubber deterioration in the fuel cutoff solenoid in the fip, and one user who ruined two lift pumps. They seized when he switched to hot wvo.
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Old 09-14-2004, 10:23 AM
peterjeff peterjeff is offline
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thanks much for the link, ctbiodzl. i am planning to bypass the lift pump with an electric pump that is cheap ($100) and mounted in an easily accessible place under the hood (i'll remove the jack). as far as the fip and injectors go, i figure this is an experimental setup and we'll see how it goes. one of the guys from the company i got my conversion from has a converted F250 that his construction company uses.
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Old 09-14-2004, 11:00 AM
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Watch out for the tax man as well, there is a guy out here in the midwest just got busted for not paying road taxes, they'll be looking you up.
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Old 09-14-2004, 11:25 AM
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Currently there's not a law against using wvo in Illinois. I've heard of the conversion and talked to a fellow I've know for years about it. He's on 12,000 miles now on a Chevy.Next he's getting a diesel genset and going off the grid. Look to greasel.com for information and history. If I had a diesel I'd do it.It's what the original engine ran on!
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Old 09-14-2004, 11:35 AM
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That gent was in Iowa City, I don't know how they would be here in Missouri. I'd like to know how they could prove all those miles were on WVO unless they got his records,or he publicly announced it.
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Old 09-14-2004, 01:02 PM
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Exactly. The deal is when you pull up to a weigh station the truck smells like french fries! It ****es the government off because they aren't getting their big *** cut out of it.
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Old 09-14-2004, 01:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by peterjeff
thanks much for the link, ctbiodzl. i am planning to bypass the lift pump with an electric pump that is cheap ($100) and mounted in an easily accessible place under the hood (i'll remove the jack).
That pump will perform lots better if you mount it back by the fuel tank(s). Pumps push really well but they don't pull very well.
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Old 09-14-2004, 09:27 PM
Teedo47 Teedo47 is offline
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After researching conversions for a very long time, i finally decided that i'd just do it myself, and not buy a kit. I bought a racor filter with a water separator bowl and an electric heating element. I twisted up some 1/2"OD copper tubing and put it in the forward tank around the fuel pickup, and I'll be connecting it up series with my heater core once I find a store that sells heater hose that isn't pre-cut. I cut a hole in a flat part on top of the tank, and slid the copper pipe in. I bent the pipe so that there would be no fittings inside the tank(no leaking). Now I just need to put a plate over the top with two holes in it and some grommets. I'll use the stock water separator and fuel filter, but they will only be used for diesel/biodiesel, so those will be attached to the frame rail closer to the rear tank (avoids using tons of fuel line, and i like making it clean). The solenoid will be moved up the frame rail, near the metal line that comes from the fuel pump. I'm also going to set the stock fuel heater up to a switch instead of a thermostat so it can give the fuel a final heating.

The truck has less than 40K on it, so I hope the stock lift pump will last a while, but if it doesn't, what brand of electric fuel pump do you all recommend?

Also, watch out for a few things on the kit you buy (if you buy one). Make sure there is a water separator, and that the vegetable oil filter is rated at 10 microns or less. Also, you can't necessarily just loop all the retun lines to make sure that vegetable oil stays out of the startup tank, that can lead to air getting trapped in the fuels lines and eventually stalling the engine. The greasel kit doesn't have a water separator, filters to only 28 microns (with the cleanable filter), and the fuel lines are looped (although there is a manual valve for purging air). With looped lines, the fuel gets and stays hot, which is good for vegetable oil, but hot diesel is a poor lubricant (using a biodiesel blend should negate this, though).

I plan on installing a three port solenoid that will either loop the return line or return it to the tank, along with a pre-injector fuel temp guage. If the oil is too cool, i'll loop it, but when running diesel or if i think there is air in the lines, I'll send it back to the tank.
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Old 09-14-2004, 10:59 PM
peterjeff peterjeff is offline
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electric pump from summitracing.com. it is a holley, #12-801-1. $105 shipped. this is the one recommended to me by neoteric.
teedo 47 why are you heating your tank?
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Old 09-14-2004, 11:22 PM
Teedo47 Teedo47 is offline
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The oil needs to be thin enough to be pumped at all points in the fuel system. Also, getting the oil hot in the tank before it goes through the electric heaters makes them do less work. Also, I'm not sure how much heat I'm going to get out of them.
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Old 09-14-2004, 11:33 PM
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You guys be careful with the veggie oil.
If you have it in a tank that can be drawn out of by the engine, you have to prove you did not use it rather than them prove you did.
All states and the federal government by law require HUT (highway use tax) for driving on their roads. That is a big part of the high fuel prices.
There is no law against veggie or dyed diesel on the highway, the law is no fuel that does not have HUT paid on it.
Crisco does not have HUT paid on it. It is the same as running dyed diesel on highway.

It saves you money till you get busted for not paying HUT.
In WV the fine for burning untaxed fuel on the road is $5,000 or $10 per gallon tank capacity which ever is greater.

So far this year I have burnt $2,410.74 worth of pump fuel, so it would take 20 months of not getting caught just to break even with just the fine. I have been stopped and checked for untaxed fuel three times this year so far. If I was burning veggie oil I would have saved a negative $12,509.76, plus court costs three times, plus the cost of the conversion.

Pump fuel is cheap, 17.5 cents per mile.
The fines alone would be 1.09 per mile, plus three court costs, plus the conversion.

And if they really wanted to be nasty, they could also charge you with tax evasion.
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Last edited by Dave Sponaugle; 09-14-2004 at 11:50 PM.
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Old 09-15-2004, 12:06 AM
Dwest Dwest is offline
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Can you just claim it and pay road tax? My step-father is currently using grease on his Cummins.
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Old 09-15-2004, 12:23 AM
Teedo47 Teedo47 is offline
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Stopped three times in a year? I've never been pulled over in my life, and I've never heard of anyone (other than through this forum) getting busted for using vegetable oil. I guess they just don't enforce off-road fuels as much over here in California. Thanks for the heads up, but for now I'm still gonna act invincible. Hope the world never proves me wrong.
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Old 09-15-2004, 12:23 AM
 
 
 
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