So what's your take on the Novel By George Orwell,written in the 50's?

Is he a Prophet or did he just luck out with his analysis?

What are your feelings about how the world and more importantly how the free world has evolved?



[font color=red]Dennis

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Orwellian precepts are not obvious in the States, but the UK and it's territories are sure feeling the breath of a malevolent Big Brother looking at every move. It is nearly impossible to move around the UK without you being traceable by video.. Glad I do not live there.

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[updated:LAST EDITED ON 20-Jun-02 AT 03:28 PM (EST)]My concern with Orwell was his political leanings....

 

Referencing theologian's post, I was unaware of how insidious video surveillance was in the UK until I happened to watch one of those episodes of "World's Worst (fill in the blank)". The majority of this episode came from video cameras in the UK. One memorable sequence was able to follow a suspect from a train station, across several streets and into another building a considerable distance away. Yes, it was indeed an Orwellian moment. The following week a popular science magazine carried an article on unmanned drone aircraft. Popular with the military for safe, cheap, real time observation of frontlines. A side bar features smaller, silent, camera carrying drones for use in 'fighting crime' in major cities.

No, Orwell was not a prophet, just intelligent enough to forsee the ramifications of a liberal sponsored 'nanny government'.

The question now becomes, it is too late to reverse this trend or can it even be reversed?

 

>Don't feel too smug that only the UK has spy cams all over.
>If you as an American live in or near any big city, you
>probably are on spycam several times every day. There are
>spycams in shopping malls, banks, busy intersections,
>restauranrts, small stores, sports stadiums, airports,
>public buildings, just about anywhere a lot of people may
>pass thru. I forget teh statistic, but I heard a radio talk
>show last month that said most Americans are on camera at
>least 20 times every day.

I live in a city of about 30,000 and we have cameras in EVERY major intersection. Don't forget those ever watching ATM machines. They stare into the streets 24/7. I've even heard they prosecuted a guy who attacked a girl in a parking lot over 500 yrads away due the footage from an ATM.

>Don't think that you won't be seen or can't be tracked.
>Unless you live in rural America, you have already been
>spotted. If you use any federally supported service, the
>internet, mail, highways, credit transactions, phone
>services etc, you can be found if they really want to. Lucky
>for most of us, we are pretty uninterssting and not worth
>surveilance. But with better computer systems and biometric
>recognition systems in the works, some day constant tracking
>will not be difficult.
>
>I get more paranoid every day. Jeez.
>
>Smile you're on Candid Spycamera.
>
>Jim Henderson

Don't get too paranoid. Ever heard "can't see the forest for the trees?" pretty soon everything will be monitored and there will so much to look at that they wont be able to see it all (I hope!)

 

He knew human nature and wrote about it.
Man has been the same since Adam and Eve. When you know how we work, then the book shouldn't surprise you.
Only the setting was different.

 

It took a long time for "traceability" to happen here.

What do you think transactions by "Plastic" tell the mainframe guru's about us?

Where we were, WHO we are, what we want, where we got it, etc...

And where did you think "Telephone salespeople" got their lists from?

We are not only known inside and out, we are for sale.

As lists of what we have bought in the past, so as to determine trends in marketing if nothing else...


Behold: thou art betrayed by thine own purchases.

Welcome to 1984

 

[updated:LAST EDITED ON 20-Jun-02 AT 08:34 PM (EST)]I don't think many here are as old as I am. I have seen lots of changes.

I was born early 1933. I remember growing up in a really free country.

The "police" were "peace officers" and never bothered anyone unless they were committing a robbery or something. There were no "black ninja" uniforms. All peace officers I knew were real friendly guys.

Most everyone had guns. We could and did ride our bikes arround town carrying our 22 rifles. Adults could and did carry hand guns anywhere. There were no restrictions on citizens carrying any type of weapons, and carrying them anywhere.

There was no restriction against having a full auto gun. Many people purchased Thompson sub machine guns.(45 cal) full auto. It was completely legal to own and carry one. People even order their Thompsons thru the post office mail.

As kids we would ride our bikes to the downtown police station carrying our 22 rifles and enter the police station. The desk sgt. would give us permission to use their indoor shooting range for free.


We did not need a driver license. We did not need special identification. No "policeman" (peace officer) ever stopped us and asked us for our I.D.

Kids played out side all the time and the parents never worried about where they were or what they were doing.

Public schools taught real course in math and history and science, etc. They could and did wip the heck out of any kids that did not obey and they didn't get parrents permission to do it.

Any kid that talked back to any adult was subject to being slapped real hard by any nearby adult.

Yes, many many freedoms have been lost. Many of you will never miss them because you never experienced them.

Today its like a dog living in a cage. People are forced into everything by the "state". You do not even have control to do things to your own home without getting permission from "big brother".

Just think of the thousands of things you cant do without getting a permit from "big brother". None of which existed back when America was free.

My dad returned from WWII and brought some full auto machine guns (enemies) ammo, swords, helmuts, and yes even hand gernades,(with powder removed) All of this stuff is now illegal to posess.

Most people have no idea of what freedoms have been lost over the last 50 years. Our forefathers would turn over in their graves if they knew. Yet hardly no one protest the loss.

Ben Franklin said "those who are willing to give up a little freedom for a little security, will in the end, have neither freedom or security."







:-(

 

Amen

 

>
>Ben Franklin said "those who are willing to give up a little
>freedom for a little security, will in the end, have neither
>freedom or security."
>


See, that's what worries me about the new ID syestem the gov. is pushing. ID chips implanted in our bodies? Anybody read Revelations?I am only 18 but I can see the tides turning. People are gung-ho about freedom but they are so willing to give it up when someone promises to give them safety. Honestly, people are so caught up with "security" and "safety" that they have forgotten what those words mean. The government can and will play on people's fears to get them to agree to things they never would have gone for pre-9/11. The thing is, the general public basically wants someone to give them security and tell them what's right etc. Talk about easy prey! It would be so easy for someone to gain control of the country right now. It makes me thank the Lord that we have the right man at the wheel. But still it's alarming to see how quikly people will give up freedom for security. All in all, :-X11

 

All trucks are created equal...

Some are just more equal than others....

 

There is always that push away from personal freedoms towards gov't control and knowledge of us. It happens because we allow dumb a** politicians and career senoir law enforcement officials to elicit knee jerk approvals(often by silence) from us. Shouldn't we be allowed to carry $10,000 or $20,000 in cash if we want too? Is it legal yes; but you better hope you don't make a police officer suspicious of you if he finds out you have it.
I don't want rant. I live quite well in our economic system, it is the most powerful most lucrative in the world all in only a couple hundred years. But it is just quite disheartening to me how many people are willing to be led without any thought about over zealous gov't. Up until it affects them.
A few years ago Bill Clinton was speaking of some of the constitutional amendments and in particular he said of the right to keep and bear arms.. he said that he supported everyone's right to hunt and fish etc.. Hunt and Fish?? Does he think that what that amendment meant? Now mind you I am no militiaman but I don't think that is what the writers had in mind.

 

I also remember that up till about the early 60"s there was:

No welfare

No food stamps

No unemployment checks

Everyone was responsible for their own actions.

No work, no pay, you just starved or went out and found some work.

Today the government has everyone covered in a "security blanket" of programs to get people to "toe the line".

The government did not take money out of your paycheck. Everything you made was all yours. Now if you do not allow them to take a hugh chunk of your paycheck, they come looking for you.:-(

 

Seems I recall Rooseveldt outlawing private ownership of gold (except jewlery and collectors coins) somewhere around 1940 or so. I believe he did this so he could indirectly tax the people by inflating the money supply. Finally, Nixon (I think) made it legal to own gold again.

Also, I have heard alot about this "school to work" program where you have to get a government ID card after meeting certain requirements in high school, before you can get a job. Don't know if this one was ever instituted.

Social Security and a multitude of "welfare" programs rob us of our hard earned pay.

What about taxpayer money promoting the "arts"? I thought that is what rich folks were for. If people want art, they should pay for it.

I can't even put up a 6-foot privacy fence in my yard without being branded a criminal (90 days and/or $500), even thought my neighbor said it is OK.


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OK, so who do we blame? Govenment? We (society), are supposed to be the government. Corrupt Politicians? Who elects them? We do. The bible says that we get the government we deserve. A corrupt people will elect a corrupt government. Those who want everything for free will elect those who will give it to them. Yes I've read Revalations plus all the others. If you don't work, you don't eat. That's also a biblical concept along with helping the poor. Yes I believe this country was founded on christian principles. But politicaly correct thinking has replaced biblical principles. Times change, we change, God does not. As if to say that we can to a better job at running things than God, we say get God out of government. If we don't want God in our lives well that's our choice. And God will honnor that choice by steping aside and let us be, and look what happens. Judgement to follow.