I have posted my problem described below on two RV Forums and got responses from “Don’t do it” to “Don’t worry, you are fine”. I am trying now to solve my problem with the help of Ford Enthusiast, especially drivers who have the SD 250 with V10.

I would like to get help with a decision I am about to make regarding buying a 5th-wheel for my 2000 Ford F250 SD, V10, long bed, super cab, 4x4, 3.73 rear, no towing package, GVWR 8800, GCVWR 17000. I am currently towing a 24’ Komfort trailer and I am planning to switch to a 5th-wheel for better towing handling characteristics. I have been towing for 15 years, have a commercial driver license for driving a school bus as volunteer and about 500, 000 miles total driving experience.

Here is my dilemma:

I weighed my truck with a canopy and a plastic truck box filled with tools etc. on the bed and got 6600 lbs with an almost empty fuel tank. Adding weights for driver, passenger, 2/3 fuel tank, (future) hitch for 5th-wheel weight, aluminum truck box, and miscellaneous stuff in the cabin gets me to a truck GVW of 7430 lbs.

The two 5th-wheels I am considering are Komfort’s models 24FS and 26FS. The GVWR for the 5th-wheels are 11179 and 11575 with cargo capacities of 3646 and 3308 for the two models. Going by those numbers I would not be able to tow either one of the models because I would exceed the GCWVR of 17000 by ~1600 lbs. But I feel that nobody is able to put 3600 lbs of cargo in a 5th-wheel unless one is hauling gold bars. I took a different approach. Starting with the unloaded weight UVW of the RVs 6972 (24) and 7706 (26), I added 400 lbs for options I like to order, 1000 lbs for “our stuff cargo”, the weight for ˝ full fresh water tank, some black water, propane, water in the heater, weight of batteries and got to GVWs for the 5th-wheels of 8857 (24) and 9591 (26). This gets me ~700 lbs below the truck GCVWR on the 24 and ~20 lbs over the GCVWR on the 26. I am OK with being 20 lbs over the GCVWR.

But when I look at the pin weight of the 5ver that’s where my dilemma is. The pin weight for the unloaded 24 is 1019 and for the 26 it’s 1415. Unloaded I am fine with the 24 (~350 under 8800) but I am already about 45 lbs over on the 26. But using the unloaded weights to make this decision is not reflecting the real loaded situation and I started looking at what happens to the pin weight of the loaded 5th-wheel. I assumed that the cargo weight adds to the unloaded pin weight at the percentage of pin weight to unloaded RV weight: 15% for the 24, and 18% for the 26. After doing this calculation things look different and not so clear anymore especially for the 26. The GVW of the truck with hooked up loaded 5ver is now ~400 lbs over which is 4.5%. On the one hand I read: Don’t exceed the GVWR or better yet stay at 75% of the GVWR, on the other hand , being an engineer, I believe there might be enough margin in Ford’s design to be OK with 4 –5% overload.

I am planning to put a transmission cooler into the truck no matter which model I will buy. If I decide to get the 26 I plan to install Firestone RideRite airbags in the rear to support leveling of the truck (not to increase the GVWR I understand that). But I cannot come to a conclusion if it is OK to go 5% over the GVWR. I drive about 12,000 mile per year of which ~ 50% are towing miles. I would like to hear the Ford Enthusiasts’ opinions and would like to know is anybody operating at slightly higher than rating weights and what did it do to

a) handling and perceived safety and
b) b) reliability.

Of course the easy way out would be to go with the 24 and be on the safer side, but the 26 has more space which comes in handy on month long trips and my wife loves it.

Sorry for the long mail, but I wanted to give as much information as possible to get answers based on data.

Thanks,
Wolfgang Dempke
Portland, OR

 

Well over is over. You'll certainly be able to find someone who will agree that it's OK to go over, even though it isn't, but there are some who will. I know there's plenty, and I mean plenty of people who tow overweight. You see guys all the time with an F-250 with 35 feet of fifth wheel and 14,000 pounds of trailer going down the road and you wonder how they do it.

I just think that if Ford says X-weight is enough, and X-weight is too much, then that would be the line. It would be for me, but you need to be the judge of that yourself. But just because somebody says "oh yea no problem, I do it all the time" that doesn't make it right. And remember it's YOUR truck you're discussing ultimately, right ?

See, you're going about this all wrong, don't go look at a 28 if the 26 is a good fit for your tow rating, show your wife a 22 and THEN the 26, see what I'm saying ?.

I'm from Portland too BTW, good to see you on the forum.

 

What about c) legality

Just to play devil's advocate... If you went larger/heavier than the weight rating and, heaven forbid, something happened, say, some idjit pulls out in front of you and you can't stop in time (probably couldn't have even when unloaded but...), could you live with yourself or would the laywers have a field day because you were "over the limit"? Not to say some of us haven't exceeded ratings at one time or another when we didn't have a choice but it sounds like you have a choice. I know there's always a safety margin designed into a max rating. That's usually to compensate for any deterioration caused by unforseen factors, corrosion, temperature, weather, wear, etc. Not because someone wants to guess a weight on a best case scenario. What happens when your water tanks are full, you just stocked up on groceries, filled the tank on the truck, and a lot of the gear happened to get stowed in the forward compartments.
You're the one with the choice.
Just my 2.5˘

 

Thanks to both Ken04 (hello fellow Portlander) and mcguyver for your response. I have been leaning towards the more conservative decision especially since all cargo weights as well as the distribution to the pin weight are just estimates. What if I am wrong and I put the RV on the scale after I bought it and I am 10% over? I can't and don't want to buy a new truck, too.

When we bought the truck 3 years ago the "future" use was maybe a 26 or 27 foot trailer as maximum towable vehicle. Well I got into "a 5th-wheel tows better" "is easier to hook up" all good reasons to look into a 5th-wheel. That's when I had the "rude" awakening that my "BIG" truck wasn't so big anymore.

I checked the weights of a 26 and 27 travel trailer and have plenty of margins with both of them. So, my decision will be made between those three: 24 5th-wheel or one of the two trailers.

Thanks again for your insights and for taking the time to post your replies.

Wolfgang Dempke
Portland, OR

 

The fiver IS easier to tow, easier to hook up, etc, etc. But weight is still weight. I think the easier to tow fools alot of folk into overloading to the point of being dangerous. I know alot of the F-250's/C-2500's,Dodge 2500's I see going down the road w/a huge fiver behind it have to be 25% over weight. Most states are talking about enforcing the RV'ers like they do the truckers, not for revenue, although that will come into play in the way of overweight fines, but for safety. We camp alot, and many times I see guys backing 32+ feet of brand new fifth wheel into a camp site with a brand new 3/4 ton pick-up. Sure it will accelerate, sure it will come to a stop, sorta. But what happens when you get 20,000 pounds of truck and trailer heading down an 8% grade in 100 degree heat in a curvy mountain range and the brakes get overheated and you bust off a leaf spring because it can't take the 14,000 pounds that has been on a frame that's rated for 10,000 ? These guys never think about that when they're walking around their camp sites with their chests all puffed out over their new 400 square foot rolling mansions. It's darned scary seeing them on the roads. Don't fall into that trap, stick to your tow rating, don't become a statistic. You seem like an intelligent guy based on your post. Heck, you own a V-10 Ford, so you're smarter than most just with that, right ? Take care amigo, I just don't want to see anyone get hurt listening to bad advice, and there's bad advice out there. The Ford tow ratings came about with alot of very careful consideration and mechanical knowledge of the parts of your trucks make-up.

 

I am a truss engineer that works with loading wood all day long. I know from experience that engineers are the most over protective people on the face of the earth. We don't want to be blamed for someone's stupid mistake. So when we design roofs we over load our designs. Most engineers I know are like this. They don't want to loose their PE licsence because something fell apart when it was fully loaded. So it just so happens to be true that we over-design. I would make an educated guess and say that the engineers working for Ford would do the same. So if your truck has a GVWR of 17000 and you are concened about 1600 extra. You are only adding 9.4% to that. In the wood truss industry we over-design by 100% to 400%. This is done because peoples lives are at stake. Do you really think that the auto industry is any different? I would say a very strong no. They understand that peoples lives are at stake every time they get into one of their vehicles. I would have no problem doing what you want to do if it were my vehicle. I hope this helps.

 

Can - Yes.
Should - No.

 

Let's talk a bit about the parts of your truck's make-up.

F250 158" WB SuperCab 8,800 GVWR
F350 158" WB SuperCab 9,900 GVWR

Difference?

Badges & tires.

What kind of tires do you have?

As DRM said but with a small twist.

Can - YES.
Should - It's up to you. Only problem would be legality (only if you have E-rated tires.)

Hey, if your that worried then you can always trade for a dually.

 

Is there no other difference in the frame ? An F-150 and an F-350 have the same frame ? Same exact frame ?

 

Aren't the platforms totally different for F150s? (ie) frames etc. I think it's a totally different thing.

 

I was thinking and asking the same thing. I would think the metal would be a greater thickness, the frame would have additional stiffening plates welded on, that kind of thing. Or possibly there would be a whole different, heavier frame altogether. But that's why I asked, cause I didn't know.

 

That is what I meant. It is my understanding that in 97, or 98 that they started building the F250/350 on a totally different platform. I read it a few years ago in an article when they redid the F150s. Up to that point, the 250s et al, were just 150s with a few HD bolt on parts. So said the article.

 

What the hell are you two talking about!?!?

Guy said he had a V10. You cannot get a V10 in Heavy Duty truck. We're talking Super Duty trucks here.

Ken04, where did the F150 come from??

 

BOttom line is an F250 & and F350 are the same except for tires. (The main load carrying difference.)

There are minor differences ie badges, certification labels, packages available etc. but the bottom line is...

If you're worried about ABILITY/HANDLING & SAFETY, make sure that you have E-rated tires.

If you are worried about LEGALITY, get an F350.

If you are really worried about STABILITY, get a dually.

 

That's what the hell I am talking about. Answering a question. I thought maybe his F150 was a typo and he meant 250 V. 350 but then again, maybe not.