In Texas (and other South Central states), the distributor for the Toyota dealers, Gulf States Distribution, tacks from $1500-$5000 onto the MSRP for stupid crap like paint treatments that you don't need. This is an absolutely abhorrent business practice, if you ask me.

Worse, the dealers will not knock that stuff off. Even then, if you do in fact manage to find a Toyota vehicle without the distributor adds, the dealers will hardly dicker off of sticker at all.

I have shopped for Toyota vehicles on several occasions. Back in 97, my ex-wife wanted a 4Runner. We stopped by several dealerships, observed their buisness practices, and promptly bought a Nissan Pathfinder at $5000 off of MSRP. Before I bought my F150, I shopped for a Tundra. I saw that their business practices had not changed, so I walked right back out.

So you compared a Tundra and an F150 on MSRP and found them similar? Big deal. The walkout price on an F150 will be much less than the Toyota. Ford usually offers good incentives on the 150, and most that I have seen are willing to deal. Try to deal at a Toyota dealership, you will be presented with a "take it or leave it" attitude.

Bottom line, I will never buy a Toyota as long as the "Gulf Coast Distributors" exist. I have nothing against Japanese cars, I have owned a Honda, an Acura and 2 Nissans. But I seriously doubt I will ever own a Toyota.

If I really had to have a Japanese truck, I would look at the new Titan. I've found the Nissan dealers to be fair for the most part.

I really don't have anything against Toyota's product per se (they are very reliable), but rather the way that it is marketed.

 

I never thought about the rebates, the ford is now at least $3000 cheaper than the sticker.

 

Plus, they will usually dicker under MSRP in the first place. You can usually get a Ford dealer to sell at invoice+ 200-500, minus the rebate. Try to find a Toyota place to do that....

 

So Ford's practice of inflating the MSRP so the can come down later and look like nice guys is preferable. If Toyota ends up costing more then it just might be worth more.

I can't imagine dealers being any worse than Ford's.
Uninformed sales staff and blowhard management.

I don't believe Toyota has as high of "holdback" as Ford so they won't sell as near to invoice. It's that simple.

 

Oh, I don't think they're "nice guys" in any sense of the imagination. But at least they don't have Gulf Coast Toyota Distribution adds that aren't negiotiable, which is the case here in Texas. Maybe in your part of the country, they don't have that. But here, they do.

Also, to say that the Toyota's selling price and the Ford's selling price will be the same, as a poster did above, is uninformed. The sticker price really means something on the Toyota (Well, plus the distributor adds in the Gulf Coast states as I stated above!!)

 

Brons2,

I have dealt with one and only one Toyota dealer in CA: "Longo" which could be the biggest in the country. They weren't anything special but I had done my homework so the deal was quick and painless for me. For them, I thought I saw them grimace at my final offer. They went for it. Had to.

I think the new f-150 is a lot better than any before and may end up owning one but not because it's made better than a Toyota. That I have a hard time believing.

 

sinjin--Did your daddy give up his mustang and buy the truck for you?

After reading the posts, I dropped by the toyota dealer nearby. Brons2 was right. They had several add-on junk stuff. One was a coating that "protected the wonderful paint". "You do want to keep the paint nice, don't you" quoted the salesman. It also had another additional price for an interior treatment. Since he thought I must have been born yesterday to buy his salesmanship, I asked how much he would offer off the sticker. He looked at me as if I had just joined a terrorist group. He indicated they did not discount the fine vechicles on this lot. MSRP may be approx. the same, but I fell there is a big difference in drive out price. I called my insurance agent. She indicated that the toyota is much more costly to repair so the premium would be $125/ year (35% more).

Of course, I am biased. I have only owed Ford trucks. I need a heavy duty truck for towing and loading. I also remember Pearl Harbor, and I lost a relative, a Marine, at Iwo Jima. You will not find me reading posts at riceburner.com.

 

95CobraR,

Not yet. I'm still shopping but will buy before next summer.

BTW I would be the daddy. Were you dissin' me?

 

Sorry, sinjin, I was confused. I thought you meant you had just bought a toyota (from Longo). Then, you believe the toyota is made better than the new F150 (which I am sure is wrong). Your sig is confusing. I would not diss anyone who owns a Mustang!!!

 

As for the Toyota being made better than the Ford...

In the year I bought my F150, 2000, the F150 actually had less problems per 100 vehicles than the Tundra, according to Consumer Reoprts. The 150 had only 16 problems per 100 vehicles, which was the least in the full size truck segment. The only light truck model that had less probles in Comsumer Reports' survey was the Tacoma, with 13 problems per 100 vehicles, and that vehicle is not in the same class as the F150.

Source, Consumer Reports April 2001.

Now we all know statistically, Toyota vehicles are probably more reliable than Fords, but it was good to see that in my model year and model, in initial quality, the opposite was true.

 

Probably my fault Cobra, I bought a 4x4 pre-tacoma in '94 from Longo. Proved to be a great truck and if it weren't that I need something bigger I would own a tacoma doublecab in a minute. Their narrowness makes them great for poor trails and the mileage is respectable.

BTW My sig refers to my willingness to part with my '98 GT Conv. which I really enjoy to get a truck to accomodate my little family including my new son(the real Sinjin now 6 mos. old).

Sorry to be obtuse.

And yes the way Toyota packages options really sucks. I do think they deserve respect on "fit & finish". In '94 to prove a point I walked down a row of Toy. trucks trying to find a body defect like seams or paint or? Couldn't find one in over a dozen. Tried it at the Ford dealer and didn't get past the second one. I think things have improved at ford but I wouldn't blame anyone for being cautious. I wanted domestic both times I ended up buying Toyota.

Those who need really big trucks for work have never had an option and they really don't yet.

IMO if Toyota built something in a true 1T LB CC Dually Diesel it would sell like crazy. I have always assumed the only reason they don't is because there's some sort of protectionist law preventing them from competing in this market.

 

Brons2,

Toyota has had problems with the Tundra true, I can only think Toyota's problems all started when the began to build in this country. Sad isn't it?

 

Actually, 13 problems per 100 on the Taco was the lowest number of any light truck sold in that survey. The F150 was a close 2nd. The Tundra still had a fairly low number of problems per 100 in that survey, I think it was in the low 20s. The highest was the Jeep Grand Cherokee, which had something like 167 problems per 100 vehicles. Yikes.

I have owned a few US built Hondas, built in Ohio, and 2 Nissan Pickups built in Smyrna, TN, never had anything but good things to say about the reliability of those vehicles.

 

Well Flamer,, Since you condescendingly tried to insult me, I'm just going to request that you prove what you just said about Tundra being "probably the most unreliable'fullsize truck on the road".
I normally don't get pissed about what is said in these forums, but then,,, most people don't deliberately pick a fight either...

I went first to my local small town Ford dealer who wanted 34k for a pickup and would not budge and also didn't seem to know anything about rebates.. I then started making phone calls to Toyota dealers and eventually bought this Tundra over the phone for invoice (27,800) + 400 dollars... minus 3000 in rebates =25,200.


You seem to think that Ford trucks are sent down from heaven by God direct to the individual owners.... So I gotta explain in a slow even tone,, they are just a machine. Everything I see indicates to me that the overall 5 year cost of the Tundra will be less than the Ford or Chevy although the Chevy actually gets better fuel economy. As I said.. i've driven fords my entire life, and I'm tired of waiting on them to build a vehicle that will get decent fuel mileage and keep it's value.
My wife's boss is trying to sell a very nice clean, low miles 2001 F150 and the Ford dealers are trying to give him 10,000 bucks trade in for it. So how many thousand dollars per month did that vehicle depreciate??

Anyhow..

 

TomThrall--You should remember this site is Ford-trucks! Ford sells 900,000 F series trucks a year. It has alot of fans out there. He wan't trying to pick a fight; he was just concerned. Some of us grew up with Fords and remember Pearl Harbor. That dealer was trying to take advantage of your wife's boss. That is alot under the true value. I just sold a '97 F150 SC (3 days ago). I bought it for $21K. It hauled heavy items, towed a 8000 lb. trailer, and it was NEVER in the shop in 7 1/2 years. I sold it for $9.8K. That is about $1500 depreciation per year. I can live with that.

I hope you enjoy your new truck, and I hope you hang around this site. If an occasional flame bothers you, you may want to look for a Toyota site.