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A while back I posted a thread trying to fix a clicking noise coming from the front end on my F-350 dually when applying the brakes at slow speeds (under 15 mph).
While returning from our camping trip last week the noise is back again. It does not occur after the truck sits overnight or for a few hours. But after driving for 30 minutes or longer the clicking will return when I apply the brakes at slow speeds. I tested the rotor temps with a heat gun and it seems to start when the rotor temps get above 120 degrees F. So I removed the brake pads & calipers, regreased the slide pins, cleaned up the pads and applied some lubricant on the back of the pads. I also bent the pad clips so they would fit snugger/tighter in the slots.
Whatever I did seemed to cure the clicking while driving around this weekend. I made sure I got the front brakes nice and warm - up to 180 degrees or so.
When I did this same procedure a few months ago the clicking went away - but eventually returned.
Do you thing I should get some better clips? Replace the sliding pins? Pads?
The rotors & pads were replaced this winter & the shop said they and the labor are still under warranty. But if they use the same clips - I'm concerned I'll be back to square one in a month or so.
Having the same issue with mine. Didn't have any issues with it before but I just recently relubed everything as the breaks were squealing, but now I'm getting the clicking just like ou are describing. I'm guessing the clips aren't seated correctly but I haven't pulled it apart yet to check.
I also replaced my calipers at the same time as I broke off a piece of the metal piston cover trying to remove the pads due to not knowing about the "nubs" on the back of the pads. They were aftermarket calipers and came with new metal clips (the clips looked identical to the ones I pulled off).
When the clicking occurs, do you notice any change in the deceleration of the vehicle as the tire rotates? It's a slight change, and in the brake industry it's called trailer hitching. Similar to that of the trailer brake engaging a little after the vehicle's brakes, except with this it's a continuous situation on slightly more on, slightly more off.
When the clicking occurs, do you notice any change in the deceleration of the vehicle as the tire rotates? It's a slight change, and in the brake industry it's called trailer hitching. Similar to that of the trailer brake engaging a little after the vehicle's brakes, except with this it's a continuous situation on slightly more on, slightly more off.
Jack,
I don't feel any pull in either direction when I apply the brakes. The truck brakes fine unloaded or with the 13K 5th wheel attached. Most of the time I can only hear the clicking when the windows are down at slow speeds, on occasion I can hear it with the windows up as slow speeds.
What I have noticed is that the side (passenger side) that is not clicking runs 15 or so degrees hotter than the clicking drivers side.
After adjusting the clips and greasing the slide pins Saturday the clicking has gone away. But in past experience it will return eventually.
I ordered a new retaining clip kit and slide pins since it seems the noise is related to this since this was all that I played with Saturday.
Also, when I go down the street at about 20-25 miles an hour and cut the engine off, I can coast in neutral and all sounds fine. When I raise each front tire off the ground individually I can spin them easily without any noise present.
Usually with a repeating noise like this it most common to have a part of the rotor touching something and leaving a witness mark, dust shield, clip, something.
This is the 06 which has much more robust clips then the earlier 99-04 years.
I'm starting to go out of the box here, more into the brake R&D mode, which is dangerous.
It might be possible your starting to get some disc thickness variation or a hard spot in the rotor. This would alter the brake torque for a short part of the rotation. With the more robust clips of this design year, and the amount of clearance between the brake pad ends and brake bracket that the pads fit into, under low speed, low torque braking a pad could be slapping back and forth in the bracket as there is a shift in low to lower friction and back again. It wouldn't occur under higher torque situations as that would keep the trailing end of the pad in direct contact with bracket. It also wouldn't occur with a tight(er) fitting brake pad.
Again, your asking an R&D brake engineer to think of all the possibilities , and years ago after taking a test during a corporate "Out of box" seminar, the instructor plotted out the test results and said, "And then we have this guy ....".
Pads are not directional on this vehicle (clip placement is if I remember correctly) so you could flip right and left side pads and see if the clicking follows the pads.
I don't have all the clip fitment pics I took for our in-house build manual that I thought I did, but these are the assembly line parts for an 06 Dually.
Yup, that looks just like my setup - just a lot cleaner! I'll try the pad swap when the clicking returns. I'm sure it won't be long......
I didn't notice any uneven wear or evidence marks on the pads or rotors. But I'll look harder next time. They only have about 2,500 miles on them. I did have a dust shield squeal but that was easy to ID and fix.
Great info Jack! The engineer in me gets really giddy with that much data in charts.
I'm reading it right that the 97 was able to maintain fully braking power (deceleration) until ~1400F at which point it faded and braking power dropped off significantly? What is the weak link, the pad material or does the fluid start to boil?
That the second fade of the FMVSS 105 test, a section of the entire test that all new vehicles have to pass. You perform three baseline stops initial at 200F initial brake temp at 30mph, targeting 10fpsps. The fade sequence is 60mph full stops at targeted 15 fpsps deceleration (~0.5g) every 1/2 mile. So the driver makes a stop, goes full acceleration back to 60mph and makes the next stop for a total sequence to 15. Then run recovery stops at 30mph with 1 mile intervals.
Stops 5 to 9 exhibited minor material fade as evidenced by the in-stop increase in hydraulic pressure, which is modulated by the driver with minor pedal effort. The pedal effort does not show as dramatic of an increase. The last six stops of the fade sequence show stable pedal effort, indicating no loss of friction despite the continuing elevation of front brake temps exceeding 1500*F, representative of an acceptable OE material. And in fact the last three applications show the driver backing off hydraulic pressure showing that the material in showing in-stop increases in friction coefficient, although not enough to be of concern. Pedal travel is relatively stable through the fade indicating no brake fluid boil issues, leaving 1.2" of reserve to the floor for this disc/drum application during the latter stops.
The five recovery stops returned quickly to baseline values, indication no residual or delayed fade of the friction material, or thermal transfer increasing brake fluid temperatures and delayed fluid boil with these phenolic Pistons. Pedal travel during the first recovery stops still showed some friction material softness from the elevated temperatures, but it was minor and recovered by the latter stops.
Its the way I would have written about this section in a report. It actually is a very good material, and you have consider this test is run at full GVW. The last recovery stop has the front pads at 600F, and compares well in pedal effort and travel to the baseline stops at 200F.
The first fade sequence is 10 stops rather then 15. GMC 2500 disc/drum.
I would have reported as:
By the fourth stop of the 1st fade sequence the front material started to exhibit in-stop fade. At the sixth stop the driver was required to push to the maximum pedal effort of 150lbs to maintain deceleration. Three quarters of the way through the sixth stop the front hydraulic pressure shows the front brake master cylinder chamber bottoming out with a trailing pressure during the continuation of maximum pedal effort. The rear brake pressures continue to elevate with the drivers pedal force application achieving the target deceleration. The remaining stops of the first fade continue to show the master cylinder chamber bottoming and lowering front hydraulic pressure ability with each subsequent stop. Pedal effort is still at maximum and pedal travel shows the brake pedal approximately 0.6" from the floor, utilizing the rear brakes the most. The temperature data from the front brakes shows the right front fading more then the left front, demonstrating poor consistency in manufacturing across the pads.
The recovery stops were immediate in response although they demonstrate an over recovery in friction, reducing the pedal effort requirement by one third so the driver would experience a sensitive brake until the over carbonization of the friction material surface was worn away.
The rear brake shoes of this disc/drum vehicle showed the ability to handle the excessive load during the front brake material fade, preventing a serious loss in deceleration. Rear shoe temperatures were consistent side to side demonstrating good product consistency as well.
Thank you very much Jack for posting that detailed info. I'm sorry I haven't posted back yet, life has me jumping around like a one legged man in an *** kicking contest.
I picked up my new clips, caliper slide pins & rubber boots, and caliper bolts. Now I just need to find the time to put them in.
Usually with a repeating noise like this it most common to have a part of the rotor touching something and leaving a witness mark, dust shield, clip, something.
This is the 06 which has much more robust clips then the earlier 99-04 years.
I'm starting to go out of the box here, more into the brake R&D mode, which is dangerous.
It might be possible your starting to get some disc thickness variation or a hard spot in the rotor. This would alter the brake torque for a short part of the rotation. With the more robust clips of this design year, and the amount of clearance between the brake pad ends and brake bracket that the pads fit into, under low speed, low torque braking a pad could be slapping back and forth in the bracket as there is a shift in low to lower friction and back again. It wouldn't occur under higher torque situations as that would keep the trailing end of the pad in direct contact with bracket. It also wouldn't occur with a tight(er) fitting brake pad.
Again, your asking an R&D brake engineer to think of all the possibilities , and years ago after taking a test during a corporate "Out of box" seminar, the instructor plotted out the test results and said, "And then we have this guy ....".
Pads are not directional on this vehicle (clip placement is if I remember correctly) so you could flip right and left side pads and see if the clicking follows the pads.
I don't have all the clip fitment pics I took for our in-house build manual that I thought I did, but these are the assembly line parts for an 06 Dually.
What is the copper wire looking thing that goes around the caliper from the outer pad?
07-17-2016, 03:49 PM
, and years ago after taking a test during a corporate "Out of box" seminar, the instructor plotted out the test results and said, "And then we have this guy ....".
