I have 05 F250 SD with 150k on it. The engine has the typical cam phaser knock, timing chain slap on start up and occasionally have a noisy lifter. As long as I use fresh 20-40 oil the engine symptoms are less and the engine runs strong. The motor also doesn't leak or burn oil and the plugs were change out about 20k ago.

The truck is still good and is prefect for my needs so to me it's seems worth fixing the needed repairs. What I would like to figure out how far should I take the motor... just have the chains, guides and phasers replaced or buy a rebuilt motor and swap it? I'm thinking just doing the phases and etc would be 1/2 the cost but may not last as long as rebuilt motor. But realistically I might only put 5-7k miles are year on it anyways.

Any thoughts from guys who have replaced the phaser stuff compared a whole rebuild???

 

Take a compression and leak down readings and then make that decision. You may find significant cylinder unbalance or low compression on several cylinders. Then do a rebuild or crate replacement. If the readings show a healthy compression then just do the CPs. Be sure you use only Motorcraft parts here.

 

If you have chain slap, you might as well count on dropping the oil pan. Chain guide pieces will end up blocking your intake tube if you don't.
The chain tensioners on this engine are made primarily of plastic, and lose pressure by leaking out the back. There are cast iron replacements available that also have a pawl that keeps pressure on the timing chain, even when there is no oil pressure (shut down and start up). Highly recommend installing these.
The phasers - don't be fooled into saving a dollar - only use genuine Ford phasers. Other brands invariably fail.
VCT solenoids - may not need to be replaced, but should be cleaned and inspected at least. Again, use only Ford brand - other brands do not have the same support for the filter screens the Ford ones have.
Do be very careful with disassembly and reassembly. One of the biggest problems is making mistakes - damaging COPS, breaking connectors, damaging MAF, etc. Keep everything super clean. I recommend cleaning the engine/bay ahead of time.
Some folks have managed to work the passenger side without disconnecting and voiding the air conditioning. You'll need to decide ahead of time if you are going to have yours evacuated/refilled or not.
If you buy all new parts, including a high volume high pressure oil pump, and 24 valve lash adjusters, it'll run just about $2400.00 where a long block can run upwards of $3500.00.
The biggest problem with a rebuilt motor is knowing what the builder did. If they used Dorman phasers for example, you are going to be back inside that engine faster'n you can say "Dorman cam phasers are worthless".
Either way, you are in for some "under hood" time.
Good luck!

 

I'm in the middle of replacing the entire timing set on my '06 Expedition. If your mechanically inclined it's not that hard, just time consuming. I got the passenger side valve cover off without messing with the AC, just takes a helper.

I have around $700 in parts to do everything, including a Ford OE oil pump. The rest of aftermarket parts, which look to have the same build quality as OE. Keep in mind, Ford made all the parts that are failing so don't think their any better. My '06 has 77k on the clock and both timing guides disintegrated, both tensioners had blown seals, and both phasers were knocking. It ended with a timing chain through the valve cover. This truck was 100% serviced at a Ford dealer its entire life.

No need to drop the oil pan either. When you remove the front timing cover and oil pump you have plenty of access to clean out the bits of guide that fall down there. I just blew the junk to the front of the pan with shop air through the drain plug, blew out the pickup tube, then flushed the pan with carb cleaner.

 

wrvond... Are these Delphi cam phasers in these engines?

 

I don't think so, though I do not know for a fact who manufactures for Ford.
I reread my statement concerning the cam phasers, and didn't really say what I meant. Dorman cam phasers should be avoided. They have a really poor track record, often breaking the vanes in just a few hundred miles.

 

If your engine passed a leak down and compression test, no need for a full tear down. It'll last 300k easy.

 

Lots of good info wrvond, you sound like a mechanic?

^^ This. Answered another one of these questions the same way just last night. These engines are known to be good for a LONG time, so I wouldn't jump to a rebuild for a simple timing issue.

 

Yeah a full rebuild seems like overkill when the engine runs so strong. But this is what worried me... a friend who works at a Ford dealership talked to techs and they also said the cams can burnt and or runout on crank. Any of you guys heard of either one of those problems?

Basicly the Ford guys said junk the motor and buy a rebuild.

 

Did you have to buy any special tools for the job? Thanks!

 

Never heard of either being a common issue.

Of course Ford would want to sell you a new engine. More profit for them.

 

The cast iron tensioners you mentioned. Were they updated version to the crap plastic ford put in my 5.4? I'm just finding bunches of aftermarket cast iron tensioners but not many genuine ford ones. Are the aftermarket cast tensioners any good?

 

no, but I have a well stocked tool set. The things some people may not have that were helpful: 1/4" ratchet with a swiveling head (for PS pump removal), an 8mm wrench with swiveling head (for oil pump removal/install without dropping pan). I also had a fan belt wrench, not required but makes removal much easier.

I'll warn you, getting the new oil pump back on is the hardest part of this job. Starting the back bolt for the pickup tube requires some uncomfortable mechanics yoga across the core support. I'm buttoning everything up today, total time for this job for me will be around 16 hours, and total cost will be around $700 which included a good used valve cover.

 

Melling makes the best. The part numbers are BT403 for the right and BT402 for the left one.
Here's a link to the right side: Melling BT403 - Free Shipping on Orders Over $99 at Summit Racing

And to the left side: Melling BT402 - Free Shipping on Orders Over $99 at Summit Racing

I'd like to take a moment to address the oil pump -
IMO the oil pump is the root cause of all the problems. It has an aluminum back which flexes under pressure, allowing the oil volume to the cam chain tensioners, the VCT solenoids, and the cam phasers to drop significantly (additionally, the valve lash adjusters and followers suffer oil starvation too).
The solution to this is to replace the OEM oil pump with a Melling M360 high volume pump. It has a cast iron back plate that requires much higher pressure before it starts to flex, which will ensure your timing and valve components get the quantity of oil they need.

In summary:
Melling M360 oil pump
Melling cam chain tensioners
Ford cam phasers (other brands may be suitable - just avoid Dorman)

Hope this helps.

 

The iron tensioners don't fail so you can easily get those from the junkyard, just disassemble and clean them. That's what I did with my high compression mustang build. Also, I have read about a bunch of people doing cam phaser lockouts. Why doesn't anyone suggest that here?