79 F-100 Turbo 300-6 Sleeper
#151
12-12-2015, 10:42 AM
Same here HpCowboy13. Basically use it as a dyno, but enjoy the experience and all the cars. Definitely want to see the Torino!
My goal next season is 11's, shouldn't be a problem with the changes made since the last outing. This combo is so much fun to drive and pound on with the gt45 and Lunati 277 working so well together. I don't want to go too racy with a bigger cam and turbo yet, taking away all the fun for just a hand full more hp. I can turn up the boost and spray it to keep the fun factor for now.
My goal next season is 11's, shouldn't be a problem with the changes made since the last outing. This combo is so much fun to drive and pound on with the gt45 and Lunati 277 working so well together. I don't want to go too racy with a bigger cam and turbo yet, taking away all the fun for just a hand full more hp. I can turn up the boost and spray it to keep the fun factor for now.
#152
12-12-2015, 11:00 AM
Awesome. I like megasquirt. I'm tying to get back into tuning and using it on projects. I've been out of the business for more than a few years, and I miss it.
I will be getting my 97 turbo ranger back going soon, that has ms1 v3. Svo 2.3 turbo with ported everything. It was darn fun at 18-20 psi. And get 24mpg on top of that.
I also have a 91 geo metro with a turbo 1liter 3 cylinder. That also runs ms1 v3 and 12psi. That still gets 35-37 mpg beating it all day. I need more fuel, and I'll crank the boost up on that. It's a wicked sleeper. Ugly faded greenish teal 4door, will really surprise you.
Anyway, keep at it. I'm thrilled you're still working on it and making improvements.
I will be getting my 97 turbo ranger back going soon, that has ms1 v3. Svo 2.3 turbo with ported everything. It was darn fun at 18-20 psi. And get 24mpg on top of that.
I also have a 91 geo metro with a turbo 1liter 3 cylinder. That also runs ms1 v3 and 12psi. That still gets 35-37 mpg beating it all day. I need more fuel, and I'll crank the boost up on that. It's a wicked sleeper. Ugly faded greenish teal 4door, will really surprise you.
Anyway, keep at it. I'm thrilled you're still working on it and making improvements.
A customer has a bunch of non turbo Metro 1.0 3 cylinders that I take care off, neat little chunks of aluminum and awesome mileage. Very cool playing with a turboed Metro. He recently picked up a 96 Metro with the big block 4 cylinder 1.3 in it lol.
#153
12-13-2015, 04:12 PM
thanks, torque and hp is awesome with these setups worked a lot better than i expected. im surprised your cast pistons have lasted so long, i have run 23lbs through this one on the hypers just wondering if its a ticking bomb in mine (the oil squirters in the rods i think are helping a lot), its set at 18psi at the moment, anything more and my fuel system cant handle any more. need to revamp mine and the bottom end. ill keep watching your thread here and don't want to hijack it. im ordering a lunati voodo cam, they didnt seem too inclined to help with a custom grind. neither did comp cams. soo settled with a voodo 256/262 for now, valve lift is an issue due to the springs i dropped in awhile back (comp 983-12 i believe) with the stock valves, think my max lift is .510" giving a spring clearance of .040" before binding. my head got turbulent above .500" anyhow, made 230cfm on the intake with bowl/port work, 3 angle grind and back cut valves with the efi head. excited to see what the difference is between that and the stock cam.
on another note, im running into some tuning dilemmas, looking at converting to ms/ or getting the software to modify the tunes on my sct x4. its a pita to go back and forth via email to change a tune, would also like to increase my timing under cruise and re enable my egr, the mpg is brutal with this thing at the moment on the highway, a/f is good, but it would be nice to artificially change the displacement when you dont need the hp/torque. if i go either route i may have some more inquiries and would like to bounce thoughts back and forth with you guys.
this build originally was a test mule for another project (dirty dodge) now im debating tossing my big blocks for that one in leu of a sb. as far as power adders and such forced induction seems to be the best bang for the $$. this truck ran 16.33 in the 1/4 at 85mph at 8lbs at 4400lbs with the 5sp it was hard launching with a brutal 60ft ha.
on another note, im running into some tuning dilemmas, looking at converting to ms/ or getting the software to modify the tunes on my sct x4. its a pita to go back and forth via email to change a tune, would also like to increase my timing under cruise and re enable my egr, the mpg is brutal with this thing at the moment on the highway, a/f is good, but it would be nice to artificially change the displacement when you dont need the hp/torque. if i go either route i may have some more inquiries and would like to bounce thoughts back and forth with you guys.
this build originally was a test mule for another project (dirty dodge) now im debating tossing my big blocks for that one in leu of a sb. as far as power adders and such forced induction seems to be the best bang for the $$. this truck ran 16.33 in the 1/4 at 85mph at 8lbs at 4400lbs with the 5sp it was hard launching with a brutal 60ft ha.
#154
12-14-2015, 08:59 AM
Tune and meth/water keep the pistons alive, having an auto helps so I can't lug the motor and break skirts. Another part of the equation is max boost at an rpm higher than peak torque. A 351w turbo guy bent rods with cast pistons and a good tune, and others have melted/broke forged in short order with off tunes. I think we are all at risk.
Camshaft is tough choosing when you want to keep mpg with small cubes and a heavy truck, all the guys I have talked to this about are going the right direction with high lift and short duration. I don't think they will rpm like they are advertised with a turbo but will be ok to 4000-4500. (Cranking it to 6000 in neutral doesn't count lol!) I think with the 300, port SIZE becomes the issue with the 4" stroke and the only way to make power at higher rpm is to increase duration giving those ports TIME to fill the cylinder...at least higher than 5000 rpm.
When I emailed Lunati, I had my cam specs ready and they didn't hesitate, was a fast deal ordering. The tracking number didn't auto email me that was the only downfall. I ordered my cam, installed it, and ran it before another cam company even got back to me!
My next cam will be increasing durations further, keeping lift around .550 or lower. It's a little tough to keep lift low when durations@.050 are 240-250's although doable. For my combo, I like a higher lifts just to get better airflow a little sooner. I did the math once and I think it was about .425 lift when the valve would be open enough to equal port size at the seat. So higher lifts would give you more time at "wide open port" so to speak.
Your flow number's look great, did you happen to flow them prior to porting for comparison?
I really want to do a 460, just to have monster tq at the touch of the throttle vs pushing the 300 so hard, but for now I'm having fun.
Camshaft is tough choosing when you want to keep mpg with small cubes and a heavy truck, all the guys I have talked to this about are going the right direction with high lift and short duration. I don't think they will rpm like they are advertised with a turbo but will be ok to 4000-4500. (Cranking it to 6000 in neutral doesn't count lol!) I think with the 300, port SIZE becomes the issue with the 4" stroke and the only way to make power at higher rpm is to increase duration giving those ports TIME to fill the cylinder...at least higher than 5000 rpm.
When I emailed Lunati, I had my cam specs ready and they didn't hesitate, was a fast deal ordering. The tracking number didn't auto email me that was the only downfall. I ordered my cam, installed it, and ran it before another cam company even got back to me!
My next cam will be increasing durations further, keeping lift around .550 or lower. It's a little tough to keep lift low when durations@.050 are 240-250's although doable. For my combo, I like a higher lifts just to get better airflow a little sooner. I did the math once and I think it was about .425 lift when the valve would be open enough to equal port size at the seat. So higher lifts would give you more time at "wide open port" so to speak.
Your flow number's look great, did you happen to flow them prior to porting for comparison?
I really want to do a 460, just to have monster tq at the touch of the throttle vs pushing the 300 so hard, but for now I'm having fun.
#155
12-14-2015, 10:06 AM
Mountain Pass
#156
12-14-2015, 11:58 AM
#157
12-21-2015, 07:51 PM
Tune and meth/water keep the pistons alive, having an auto helps so I can't lug the motor and break skirts. Another part of the equation is max boost at an rpm higher than peak torque. A 351w turbo guy bent rods with cast pistons and a good tune, and others have melted/broke forged in short order with off tunes. I think we are all at risk.
Camshaft is tough choosing when you want to keep mpg with small cubes and a heavy truck, all the guys I have talked to this about are going the right direction with high lift and short duration. I don't think they will rpm like they are advertised with a turbo but will be ok to 4000-4500. (Cranking it to 6000 in neutral doesn't count lol!) I think with the 300, port SIZE becomes the issue with the 4" stroke and the only way to make power at higher rpm is to increase duration giving those ports TIME to fill the cylinder...at least higher than 5000 rpm.
When I emailed Lunati, I had my cam specs ready and they didn't hesitate, was a fast deal ordering. The tracking number didn't auto email me that was the only downfall. I ordered my cam, installed it, and ran it before another cam company even got back to me!
My next cam will be increasing durations further, keeping lift around .550 or lower. It's a little tough to keep lift low when durations@.050 are 240-250's although doable. For my combo, I like a higher lifts just to get better airflow a little sooner. I did the math once and I think it was about .425 lift when the valve would be open enough to equal port size at the seat. So higher lifts would give you more time at "wide open port" so to speak.
Your flow number's look great, did you happen to flow them prior to porting for comparison?
I really want to do a 460, just to have monster tq at the touch of the throttle vs pushing the 300 so hard, but for now I'm having fun.
Camshaft is tough choosing when you want to keep mpg with small cubes and a heavy truck, all the guys I have talked to this about are going the right direction with high lift and short duration. I don't think they will rpm like they are advertised with a turbo but will be ok to 4000-4500. (Cranking it to 6000 in neutral doesn't count lol!) I think with the 300, port SIZE becomes the issue with the 4" stroke and the only way to make power at higher rpm is to increase duration giving those ports TIME to fill the cylinder...at least higher than 5000 rpm.
When I emailed Lunati, I had my cam specs ready and they didn't hesitate, was a fast deal ordering. The tracking number didn't auto email me that was the only downfall. I ordered my cam, installed it, and ran it before another cam company even got back to me!
My next cam will be increasing durations further, keeping lift around .550 or lower. It's a little tough to keep lift low when durations@.050 are 240-250's although doable. For my combo, I like a higher lifts just to get better airflow a little sooner. I did the math once and I think it was about .425 lift when the valve would be open enough to equal port size at the seat. So higher lifts would give you more time at "wide open port" so to speak.
Your flow number's look great, did you happen to flow them prior to porting for comparison?
I really want to do a 460, just to have monster tq at the touch of the throttle vs pushing the 300 so hard, but for now I'm having fun.
valve lift i/e .486/.492
duration @.050 i/e 226/227
lsa: 115 (thought this was a bit high and a bit old school, should be able to run tighter, however i did tell them to spec for low comp around 8:1, thinking with proper sizing and such should run fine alot tighter...)
intake center line: 112 advance: 3
might be worth giving a shot, they claim it works in "other setups" unclear whether they are comparing it to a chevy 6cyl or turbocharged ford V8 stuff..??
the head flowed in the 160's in the intake with the stock ports, no seat grinding and no back cutting of the valves, and no valve de shrouding, wasnt too worried about loosing quench or the fast burn characteristics of the efi head but was able to keep the heart shape, and smoothed out the very sharp points, and polished the chambers.
took the truck for a 500km drive this weekend with a friend in another vehicle (have 15-18000km on the setup now), my buddy flagged me over to pull over, we were averaging 115-125kph, while watching my boost/vac gauge noted that the needle was hovering around "0" tacking 2400rpm. pulled over and my exhust was glowing nearly white. have had my suspicions as to the poor highway mileage and now this confirms it, i believe that the engine is hardly working however she is sucking fuel back as if a bone stock 300 was at wot constantly at a cruise, judging by the vacuum reading. the turbine is spec'd as a t4 .68 ar. awesome bottom end but im thinking its bottle necking the exhaust flow forcing the turbo to push way too much air for the load. thinking about stepping up the compressor size a bit, and changing the turbine out for a .82/.84 ar and see what happens... the low spool now is nice but top end hurts alot, and obviously cruise performance and fuel consumption. was another fast learning curve
#158
12-21-2015, 08:01 PM
#159
12-22-2015, 09:50 AM
V8 stuff. Would like to see the advertised duration on the cam also. That cam has -3.5* overlap@.050, it will idle smooth and make power to 5000, with the long efi runners limiting rpm a bit. It will be down on tq throughout the rpm range, however you can turn up the boost and advance the cam. Out of boost lazy.
I think there's a few reasons cam company's are going with wide lsa's on smaller cams. It's gives a broad rpm range, will work with undersized turbos as well as proper turbos with little overlap @.050. Give's a broad spectrum of customers without complaints that have v8's in cars. They can give up some tq without issue unlike 300 cubes and 4000+# trucks. Let me know what you want out of your truck and I will work on a custom cam to look at.
Flow benches vary alot, the before and after is the best idea. On some benches the stock 300 heads flows 100 cfm on the intake so 230 cfm looks stellar. You have made some nice gains.
You can connect your waste gate to the intake manifold so vacuum keeps it open at cruise. Connect to the top port on the gate so it's open at idle. MAKE SURE you put a tee in the line with a check valve so when the manifold is boosted it doesn't apply pressure to the top of the gate, assisting the waste gate spring and sending boost through the roof. Be very careful!!! Leave your other waste gate line as is, assuming it's connected somewhere pre throttle blade.
This will bleed off exhaust flow during cruise and idle, and keep the turbo from working until called upon. With 0 vacuum, the efi is dumping fuel and pulling timing. The waste gate trick should solve a bunch of issues your having.
I think there's a few reasons cam company's are going with wide lsa's on smaller cams. It's gives a broad rpm range, will work with undersized turbos as well as proper turbos with little overlap @.050. Give's a broad spectrum of customers without complaints that have v8's in cars. They can give up some tq without issue unlike 300 cubes and 4000+# trucks. Let me know what you want out of your truck and I will work on a custom cam to look at.
Flow benches vary alot, the before and after is the best idea. On some benches the stock 300 heads flows 100 cfm on the intake so 230 cfm looks stellar. You have made some nice gains.
You can connect your waste gate to the intake manifold so vacuum keeps it open at cruise. Connect to the top port on the gate so it's open at idle. MAKE SURE you put a tee in the line with a check valve so when the manifold is boosted it doesn't apply pressure to the top of the gate, assisting the waste gate spring and sending boost through the roof. Be very careful!!! Leave your other waste gate line as is, assuming it's connected somewhere pre throttle blade.
This will bleed off exhaust flow during cruise and idle, and keep the turbo from working until called upon. With 0 vacuum, the efi is dumping fuel and pulling timing. The waste gate trick should solve a bunch of issues your having.
#161
12-22-2015, 10:32 AM
Part of the glowing turbo is all the unburned fuel reburning in the turbo housing. I know running 14-15 a/f seems pretty lean, but there is still fuel in it. Get the turbo hot once and it will ignite what's left.
If you're getting poor mpg, I would probably try messing with timing. Also depending on the rest of your tune, it may be under load enough (at 0 vacuum) to think you're always going up a hill, so it's giving more fuel.
Except for going to a bigger turbo, you're going to need to figure a tune around your problem. Efi makes this easier, but a carb is limited.
I say go bigger turbo. My 94gt mustang loved the big exhaust housing. I was a downshift away from instant 10psi, and I could cruise with vacuum.
Keep us posted. I enjoy reading about this even though I don't own a 300-6. But I've always loved the potential of these big tractor motors. They are just built right from the factory. If I ever do own one.... It will def be getting a big turbo.
Right now I'm working on putting a gt500 blower on my 90 F150 with a 351. That will be fun also.
If you're getting poor mpg, I would probably try messing with timing. Also depending on the rest of your tune, it may be under load enough (at 0 vacuum) to think you're always going up a hill, so it's giving more fuel.
Except for going to a bigger turbo, you're going to need to figure a tune around your problem. Efi makes this easier, but a carb is limited.
I say go bigger turbo. My 94gt mustang loved the big exhaust housing. I was a downshift away from instant 10psi, and I could cruise with vacuum.
Keep us posted. I enjoy reading about this even though I don't own a 300-6. But I've always loved the potential of these big tractor motors. They are just built right from the factory. If I ever do own one.... It will def be getting a big turbo.
Right now I'm working on putting a gt500 blower on my 90 F150 with a 351. That will be fun also.
#162
12-22-2015, 05:23 PM
I'm going to jump the gun a little here while I have time... If it were my truck as a daily driver:
Lunati bootlegger intake lobe for 351w "269"
Lunati high efficiency exhaust lobe for 351w and 302 h.o. "277"
269/277 224/228 .517/.512 112/107 (2* overlap @ .050)
Install Howards 93010 +.050 keepers. They actually only give you about .030 more installed height. Double check to make sure these are correct for your valve stems/retainers. The 983 springs are very stout, DEFINITELY use the 903's for cam break in and some of the oil/zinc recommendations in my previous posts. I know it's a pain to change springs but sure beats the alternative.
Turbo:T4 flange 64-68mm turbine exducer, maybe stay smaller with the manual trans. Most any turbo with a 64 mm compressor inducer or larger will flow more than the 300 will use. Holset turbos are a different game, you might not spool a 64mm turbine exducer til 3500 rpm, something to watch out for.
Lunati bootlegger intake lobe for 351w "269"
Lunati high efficiency exhaust lobe for 351w and 302 h.o. "277"
269/277 224/228 .517/.512 112/107 (2* overlap @ .050)
Install Howards 93010 +.050 keepers. They actually only give you about .030 more installed height. Double check to make sure these are correct for your valve stems/retainers. The 983 springs are very stout, DEFINITELY use the 903's for cam break in and some of the oil/zinc recommendations in my previous posts. I know it's a pain to change springs but sure beats the alternative.
Turbo:T4 flange 64-68mm turbine exducer, maybe stay smaller with the manual trans. Most any turbo with a 64 mm compressor inducer or larger will flow more than the 300 will use. Holset turbos are a different game, you might not spool a 64mm turbine exducer til 3500 rpm, something to watch out for.