That's an old wive's tale. It is 100% false. The radiator NEVER heats the ATF. Ever. In any temperature. I've measured this from -40F to +121F and the radiator COOLER never, ever warms the ATF. The coolant around the transmission COOLER in the radiator is ALWAYS colder than the ATF. Always. Without exception. Especially when it's sub-zero. That's when the COOLER works the best, and it's when you don't want it working at all.

 

Wow, Mark, you're intense. Thank you for the passionate explanation.

~Tanya

 

I have to defer to your engineering knowledge, but what about when first started, and idling on a sub-zero morning as I alluded to?

As the engine coolant comes slowly up to operating temps, the engine fan is barely turning, and the ATF is COLD. Cold ATF can cause sluggish shifting....it certainly did on my older Chevy Pickup.

Your'e saying there is ZERO transfer of coolant heat (as the idling engine comes up to normal temps) to the in-radiator AT cooler?

None?

Ever?

How can that be?

 

It can be because the coolant in the cold side of the radiator is almost always at ambient temperature when it's very cold.

When the engine gets to operating temperature the thermostat opens and 200F coolant enters the hot side of the radiator. In sub zero temperatures sub zero coolant flows into the engine from the cold side of the radiator, where the trans cooler is located. This causes the thermostat to close pretty quickly. Now the coolant stands still in the radiator and cools down nearly to ambient again. The coolant on the cold side of the radiator hardly warms at all.

 

Ok, that makes sense and not having any facts or theories to dispute it I certainly concede the matter.

I have to say tho, its a very prevalent assumption and quite a common 'old wives tale'....

I think I will retire to my old bentwood rocker and resume my needlepoint.

 

Sixto
93 E150 Chateau 5.8 190K miles[/QUOTE]

Yeah---count me in that group too! (<<< Another shameless flirt. ) Add in one that's smart as a whip AND loves motor oil---Heaven does exist!

Ain't it funny or fascinating how crusty old boys completely change when a women joins the group? Must be a social study on all that being conducted somewhere at this very moment?

Wow---that's digging back into our long ago automotive memories huh?

Tanya whatever you're up to I hope to see some photos of it all once its completed, even now would be interesting I'm sure.

Anyway welcome to FTE and hope we're somewhat helpful along the way.

 

Yes it is! That's what I thought, too, until I started running fully instrumented cooling tests as an automatic transmission engineer.

I had hundreds of thermocouples measuring temperatures all over the engine, trans, and nearby. I found that the cold side of the radiator almost never warms above ambient when in very cold temps. In hot temps, when the truck is working at max capacity towing up an 8% grade at max load the cold side of the radiator may only be 10-15 degrees F cooler than the hot coolant coming out of the radiator. So the radiator cooler is closer to heating the ATF when everything is hot, but the ATF was still hotter than the cold side coolant. Just not by a lot.

 

Aww thank you. I'm about to go drive over the Sierras to Sacramento to go buy a couple of DJ jeeps to try the idea of "well, wouldn't the engine compartments, if we can even call it that, of a stripped down CJ or DJ Jeep have way more wide open spaces than the van?" Looks like it. I'm gonna go find out. Worst case I have two postal jeeps as lawn ornaments. Not that I have a lawn...

And it means my van gets to make another trip after I button it back up again.

1. Some of the little clips and fasteners that go into the front of the van are kinda brittle so I was wondering if replacement parts are still around and if so where please? If I'm gonna put my beloved van back together again how cool if I could use brand new hardware. Sort of like fresh underwear. Nobody sees it but it just feels better.

2. My AOD slips badly with the selector in "O-D" ... can't maintain 35mph. When I put it in one lower position, "D" as I recall, instead, then the van can roar along at 55 mph and maybe more even though it's revving higher. So I was wondering if maybe the lock-up part of the torque converter died but the rest of the AOD is fine so as long as I avoid "O-D" then I could pull the two jeeps and a massive auto transported back and forth over Donner Pass ... I can live with the van revving higher or heck, I'll just drive more slowly. That's either a great idea or the sort of plan that'll have me walking back home so I value your input (as always).

Thanks guys. And yes, you're a competitive bunch. And that's wonderful. I came to the US when I was 22. I didn't know anyone here but I'd read enough free-market textbooks while I was getting my accounting degree to have a clue. I'd argue with the local socialists as to how dumb the whole government control idea was ... and all around me the effects were disastrous. I'd argue with people around me all the time saying "if the market did that it'd be SO much better" and they'd say "oh, that'd never work" and I'd say "it DOES work, in America." Finally I felt like I was an American in an alien land arguing with people who didn't think as I did and never would, so I just decided to come here. Best decision ever. Here, when guys compete it's about being the most helpful, precise, savvy, informed ... like you can read on this thread. I mean, wow. What a culture. And when you disagree, you appeal to reason and experience, and facts. As a former outsider, I SO love the dynamic. You guys probably don't even realize how cool you are. But I do.

And so thank you again. Okay, off to Sacramento. And then I'm getting my hair done.

~Tanya

 

Most auto parts stores have a Help section where you can get all these clips and fasteners.

The lockup clutch works in both third and fourth gears. So if it's the lockup clutch you will have the same problem in both gears.

I believe your problem is a failed OD band. Not an uncommon failure on an AOD. If you always drive in D and NEVER put it in OD you should be fine.

 

Mark, since we are on the topic of transmission coolers, what do you recommend as far as auxiliary tranny coolers for light duty, occasional trailer pulling?

A few times a year I pull a motorcycle hauler (300 pounds or so) with an 800lb sidecar rig loaded up.

Its usually in summer or at least warmer temps, and over and thru mountainous terrain for at least part of the trip. Cargo in the van amounts to mostly camping supplies and large chest cooler, probably under 500 pounds max...not including me of course.

Its a 2009 4.6L, E-250 with factory "Trailer towing package, class 1" and factory auxilliary transmission cooler.

The van has 110,000 miles.

I've never seen the dash temp gauge climb above the normal range, of course, I do have to downshift and/or turn off OD in the mountains. I have seen the RPM get above 5000 a few times.

The van seems to handle it just fine, and fuel mileage when trailer pulling is in the 16 mpg range average, so its not working that hard most of the time.

Being a light 'Super Duty'...I assume its OK as supplied.

But...would a frame mounted aux tranny cooler (with electric fan) be worth the time and trouble? I do plan on keeping this van for many years.

Thanks.

 

The stock system is fine for this.

I would NOT install one of those. I do not like the frame mounted coolers. How would you get cool air to one of those? The air under there is HOT.

 

Wow, Mark, this is most encouraging .... so until I can find another automatic transmission, I can drive with this AOD without any additional risk of waking home, is what I'm concluding. Yay!! Thank you!!

~Tanya

 

Wow, I'm so used to the weird rarified air of the old-BMW world where little parts like that have to be dug from deep mines in secret kingdoms where dragons lurk. The idea of just walking into Autozone and seeing what I need, in plain sight ... kinda makes me love my E150 van even more.

Thank you for the reality check. I seem to be needing a lot of them. :-)

~Tanya

 

Okay, this is like the point in time when the space-time continuum changed in "Back to the Future" ... the original-time-line-Tanya would have soldiered on and slowly battered her van into a shape where she could easily-enough shove BMW and Mercedes-Benz engines into it, and sayonara to the van's nice 302 V8 and fine-if-your-don't-utterly-abuse-it-like-Tanya-did AOD transmission.

Thanks to this post, and its concerns as to the van's basic viability and the suggestion of using a CJ or Dj Jeep, the new-improved-Tanya drove west over the lovely Sierras this morning ... and she bought two DJ jeeps with unhappy engines (not that I care about the engines) for less than $1000. And then afterwards I learned that, oooh, they have the revered Chrysler 727 Torqueflite like I have in my Jeep Grand Wagonneer, an AWESOME transmission. So, the way I see it, is I bought two transmissions for less than $500 each and I got some DJ Jeeps free besides. Oh, and the engines are AMC straight 6 which were supposedly used in a vast variety of cars so maybe I can even sell them too, wow, even in kinda-dead condition. And no, I won't be so dumb as to try and start them after they've been sitting for years.

I'm trying to fight the temptation to dwell on how cute these DJ Jeeps are and I plan to omit any additional references to perhaps painting them pink or purple.

All sentiment aside, these Postal aka DJ jeeps are brutally practical for my project since the bodies seem easy to yank up from the frame ... tiny, light and few attachment points ... and then there are wide open spaces to drop in pretty much anything. And these DJ jeeps are the mid-1970s version intentionally made to play nice with a pretty hefty straight-6 so the concept of fitting in other straight-6 engines isn't completely dumb of me, yay!

So much as I love my E150, I'm hereby demoting it from planned-rolling-test-lab back to all-around-useful-hauling-and-towing-vehicle.

Which means I gotta replace the AOD again and fix the idle. But that's for another thread, or two.

And I'm not complaining about the AOD. I've towed too-heavy loads up too-steep mountains that, it's been made abundantly clear to me, vastly exceed what the AOD was designed to do. So, that's "my bad" and no reflection on Ford Motor Company. The thing is, I have a fairly cheap supply of decent AODs (about $150 each) so it's kinda economical to just keep abusing them and then replacing them. My AOD took a lot of abuse. I just wanna make it clear I'm not complaining about the AOD.

:-)

~Tanya

 

Tanya did we miss from where you originally called home? I'm sure I did---that motor oil lovin' blonde thing threw me........!

I've found a site called Clips & Fasteners.com ClipsAndFasteners.com - Automotive Retainers,Clips and Fasteners very good to locate various parts. While I can't help you with specific part numbers for your van the site includes images and dimensions for most plastic or metal clips.

Sometimes searching for an application works but unless the part is 10 years or newer we almost have to sort through the AuVeCo portion of the site, comparing listed parts with what we already have.

When comparing their parts to an outfit we have locally they're almost always a full 50-75% off those prices. Availability and ease of buying is a major plus with Clips & Fasteners.com

HTH