Okay first of all thanks for those photos---I know crawling around snapping ain't the easiest thing to do.

So we've established there is or should be hot coolant to all coils & lines, in theory plenty of heat available. (If the rear heater coil isn't something you'll ever use I'd still place that U tube return line closer to the engine---no need to circulate coolant that distance for no reason.)

At this point I'm suspicious of the blend door, this assuming you have full control of the blower speeds, that you can switch air flow between Heat, A/C, Floor, Vent, Defrost etc and regardless where the dash mounted temp control is set its still cold?

If yes then one part of the blend door system has failed. It can be the dash control, the blend door drive motor or the door itself has broken---any of which aren't uncommon.

I don't have time at this moment to better detail this for you---I will do that a bit later today (Sat 12/13). If you're feeling adventurous there should be a square device on the outside of the front heater box---this is the blend door drive motor, held in play by (4) 7mm hex screws, an electrical connector attached. Remove that, leave the cable attached and with Key On-Run Function control set to Floor watch/listen for the drive motor to move in sympathy while rotating the dash mounted temp control through its range. If it doesn't move we need to check the circuit including fuse; your chassis would be Fuse #13, 15 amp.

I'll try finding the diagnostic specs/routine to check the dash control however if the drive motor doesn't move it's narrowed down a bit.

Also while/if the drive motor is off feel for the blend door stub coming out of the heater case for smooth and easy operation. If that feels to be being up we have another problem.

Sorry this is dragging out so long---I've PM'd you my phone number in case that's easier.

 

Yep, the climate control panel seems to be working fine - fan speeds, air flow, etc.

I felt a little adventurous so I went after the blend door motor. That was not easy. The motor seems to be working just fine and appears to be in good shape - slowly rotating 1/4 turn when I go from cold to hot on the dash. I'm guessing that's bad news for me.

Didn't do this part yet. Had to drop everything to go Christmas tree shopping with the GF. Wanted to look at the heater core too but couldn't get the phillips head screw out at the top. Why would they do that? It's freakin' impossible to get to.

 

when you turn the blower on is there any heat whatso ever or is the air temp that comes out ambient.

If there is a semblence of heat when the fan is first turned on then colder air blows you probably have a fairly plugged heater core.

If the core is not completly plugged both lines will get hot but the core will lose its heat once the fan is turned on .

good luck and Merry Christmas

 

There is no warm or hot air at any time. Just ambient temp. No cold air either because the A/C doesn't work either. That's my next project.

Thanks for the well wishes and Merry X-Mas to you too.

 

Oh yeah---forgot to mention that flamin' screw that's nearly impossible---didn't think you needed to address that just yet. With everything else that's problematic with our Blue Oval products of choice that single issue confounds, astounds, aggravates and infuriates me something horrible!

I have a few photos of my methods removing that screw----its not a horrible thing to "forget" replacing it when the evaporator case is re-installed. Here's a few images: Heater Core Photos by JWAPhotos | Photobucket

Richter Roxs adds a bit of good info here----just one more thing that can be wrong, sad to say.

Your progress so far is potential bad news since we've eliminated most of the "easier" stuff to diagnose and fix. If you determine the blend door is the issue they can be purchased separately, Ford only sells them as part of the entire case assembly, approaching $300. Check local stores and eBay or Amazon as I'm sure Dorman et al will have something usable.

I believe I have a nice gently used heater core fitting your year (different size inlet and outlet tubes) and blend door---your's for the shipping costs only. If that's too risky a new core should run about $140. If the core needs replaced be sure to get new Quick Connect locks and O-rings; I have the part numbers if needed.

HTH

 

Thanks again for your help man! Feeling a little overwhelmed now. Still not at the point where I'd take it to my mechanic, but this seems pretty serious.

Can I do this from where I am now, or do I need to take the whole dash out? I'm not clear on where the blend door is in relation to the core. Behind? To the side? I seem to have a wiring harness and ducts in the way if I need to pull the core. Same ones that were in my way when trying to get to the blend door motor.

I park on the street and have to move for street cleaning once a week. No worries there in terms of cooling if I have to drain, etc. I'd really like to try to do this myself.

Alternatively, I could just go trout fishing tomorrow. Hmm.

 

Fishing would indeed be the easier way to go.

Have we yet determined if the blend door is working properly? While it's more than likely the core is plugged or flow restricted it would be good knowing its condition before going forward.

Nothing about this job is so complex or requiring such specialized tools it can't be done in a drive way---I do all my work there. I don't know your skill level or what's in your tool box so the following advice will be from my own experiences doing this job.

First off the dash does NOT need to be removed although removing the trim panel and its metal sub-structure holding it to the larger dashboard assembly is almost absolutely necessary; doing so gives much needed access to the outer evaporator case and its bolts.

I do suggest removing the doghouse AND right front seat---you'll thank me later for this!

There are 7 hex headed screws holding the outer case to the inner part that need to be removed. There is the one very difficult to access Phillips head screw that must be removed too. Once out the outer case can be removed. This is only semi-challenging as it must come straight out due the drain tube that projects through the firewall into the engine bay. There is also a bit of an interference fit near the top of the case as its pulled backwards that requires the case to flex a bit. The case can withstand a bit of flexing without breaking but persistence here is more important than brute force and being in a hurry.

Once the out case is removed its time to go under the hood. Factory pre-formed coolant hoses with Quick Lock fittings need to be removed. There are cheap tools that greatly aid this but anything that can/will depress the locking tabs of those connectors---8" or 10" Channel Lock pliers work well. Honestly this can be a bit difficult because age has probably caused the hoses and fittings to seize on the heater core tubes. Before attempting removal twisting them slightly tends to break that bond making their eventual removal much easier.

Releasing the Quick Lock fittings is simple in concept: push inward on the hose, depress the opposing locking tabs simultaneously then pull the hose away and off the heater core tube. With the proper tool this is somewhat easy. I have used various pliers as well as my fingers doing this so there's always more than one way to skin the cat.

Once the two hoses are loose the heater core will pull out of the remaining portion of its case---its held in place by the outer section but might be somewhat still stuck because its been there so long.

Once the core is out its simply a matter of reversing these steps for reassembly. I would recommend a new aftermarket blend door---its cheap enough and would potentially prevent doing this all again sometime in the future. Of course the upside then is you'd be experienced enough to do that repair much easier.

If the core is replaced I highly recommend re-filling the engine, firing it up until the t'stat opens and you are assured the core is filled and no leaks. Once all is well there time to button everything else up and enjoy the results of your labor.

BTW reviewing the photos in my link about the heater core in advance of beginning this might be helpful. If any questions about those photos arise feel free to ask away.


HTH

 

I have not yet confirmed that the blend door is operational. Not clear exactly how to do this. Am I just reaching up where the motor goes and trying to rotate it manually? As far as tools and skill level, I have a very complete set of hand tools, but no specialty tools and I’ve worked on cars and motorcycles for many years.

I think I’ve removed all the dash pieces that I can easily remove. I’ll yank the doghouse and seat as well. I am concerned about the heating duct and wiring harness that appear to be in the way of getting the heater core cover off. Maybe I can snap a pic and post it later.

Might have to look in to the tool for the quick lock fittings. Those are fairly well hidden on my van. I think Sportsmobile made an already hard to work on vehicle even harder to work on with all the extra lines for the rear A/C, generator, etc.

I’ll definitely review your photos again and be in touch if I have any questions. Doesn’t look like I’ll be able to really dive in to this any further until Friday…but looks like rain that day.

You mentioned Dorman; I’ve seen Dorman blend doors for $40. I’ve seen cores for anywhere from $20-$70. Any brands to specifically avoid here? I’m just looking on rockauto, amazon, etc. Core brands are Stant, Spectra, Vista-Pro, TYC, APDI, OSC, etc. and - of course - Motorcraft which is the $70 option.

Thanks again for all your help!

 

Yes.

There's no need to remove any more parts than I've outlined---trust me I've done this already, know of what I speak. No need for your photos---mine are more than sufficient, at least for me.

Here's a nice cheap but good quality set of those tools: These are probably available locally but if not eBay or other sites with free shipping might be a good idea. I'd try Jegs.com---they're quite competitive on a lot of parts and tools.

If Motorcraft is available for $70 I'd certainly go that route although the others you mention are most likely good enough as well, blend doors for $40 is an okay deal---I'd try eBay for those as well---check sellers with free shipping offered.

Glad to help if and wherever I can----hit me up if something more detailed is needed.

Best of luck---its not as difficult as it sounds.

 

Didn't get a chance to check to blend door operation this evening. Getting a part numbers list together though.

What are you referencing here with these two arrows?

HeaterBox6-1.jpg Photo by JWAPhotos | Photobucket

Also, I've got a duct and plastic-covered wiring harness bit running right in front of those arrows in my van. That's what I was mentioning before. Hmm.

 

Arrows point to the blend door drive motor---on a 2000 E250 chassis, 5.4 motor---the '97 shouldn't be significantly different. If you can post a photo of that same area on your van we can figure it out.

In the meantime here's two additional photos showing the area surrounding heater core case. The duct I believe you mention can't be easily removed but its not really in the way either. Any wiring harness or bundle is easily moved out of the way when extracting the outer case.

Looking up from close to the floor:



In this view I have the lowest edge of the heater outlet highlighted in yellow:

 

While you guys are talking about heat....I have a general question about the heating in my cargo van. (2009 e-250, 4.6L, 108,000 miles, bought it at 104,000 miles in April)

The coolant temp gauge always climbs to about the midway position after a few miles....unless, its REALLY cold outside. Then it does take awhile to get to midway.

Concurrently, again when its REALLY cold, the dash heat is mildly warm, but not hot at all. This is with ambient temps below about 15 degrees, and of course dash heat controls set to hot. I have not driven it very far when the temps were below 20f, just a few short trips around town....and not much heat was being produced.

The other day, I started it, and I left it idling with the nose of the van pointed north, a blustery cold wind was blowing out of the north, about 35 degrees, and the van idled for 20 minutes and the gauge never did move up to midway. It stayed toward the colder side of the gauge, and the dash air was only mildly warm.

When outside temps are above say, 30f or so, and I'm driving it around, it all works normally. Plenty of hot air out the vents, and guage is at midway.

Blower works fine, dash blend doors and vents all working fine.

Being my first van, I do not know if this more or less normal, or if maybe the thermostat is stuck open or maybe even removed by a previous owner. Driving all summer, it acted completely normal, never got overheated on the gauge.

Do all of these vans have a lack of heat when its REALLY cold outside?

It reminds me of the big, old-school diesels, where the radiator was so big (and no thermostats) that we had to use a winterfront (or air shutters) on the grill in the winter to help things warm up inside.

Any thoughts?

 

Sounds like a combination of two things TX---wrong t'stat and/or trying to fill too big an uninsulated space with the front-only heater.

My 2000 E250 with 5.4 has what I'm sure is a 160* t'stat where specs call for 195* which was/is stock or OEM. I once had an aftermarket rear-heater, insulated the rear area and added a partition curtain just aft of the front seats. Its a cargo/work truck so separating the areas wasn't an issue.

Even with the "wrong" t'stat I could get to a quite warm inner temps but as you observe it took a long time. Idling wouldn't give me much heat at all but while driving 20-25 miles it was comfy, what I call "warm enough for a woman"---if ya get my drift.

My '03 E250 w/5.4 has the correct t'stat and even on the coldest days its way more than warm enough up front. With the same curtain and aftermarket rear heater (along with good insulation) the entire van is more than comfortable, both for humans and my materials/supplies.

You don't want to use a winter front on one of our vans since they really are designed to give us comfortable conditions as they come stock even down to 0* ambient. Of course this is assuming the heater core is free flowing and coolant level is correct along with the right t'stat.

I would guess without any t'stat modular motors would run quite cool, much more so than older style V8 with cast iron blocks, heads etc.

Obviously I strongly suggest insulating the rear area---a little goes a long way. The partition curtains I install can be parted to either side for access but even though they're relatively thin and not at all insulated containing the warm air up front makes a world of difference.

More info if needed-----------glad to help keep FTE guys warm!

 

Ah, okay cool. Thought it may have had something to do with that black hose or something. All good. I'll have another look at the duct tonight when I get home. For some reason I remeber mine hanging down lower. I'm probably wrong.

 

Yep...agree completely, so thats why I have insulated the inside of the van with foam and reflectix and vinyl and carpet..so its quite comfy once it warms up...and for sleeping inside on coolish nights. I bought it and set it up for travel, camping, and grocery-getting.

Its not that the van is cold inside even with hot air pouring out the vents...in fact, even with lukewarm air coming out, the van is relatively comfy inside....I insulated it that well.

I suspect the thermostat is not closing all the way because of the temp gauge readings...or it may have a cooler temp thermostat than its supposed to....or it might be fine. Twenty minutes of idling and the gauge still in the low area seems like a thermostat to me...regardless of passenger area comfort....but thats why I asked, since this is my first Ford, first van, and wasnt sure what is normal. And yes, the coolant level (and color) in the bottle is fine.

Next time we have sub-freezing temps and I'm home, I will take it for a longer drive just to see what happens. I really enjoy this van, I just dont drive it that much.

Just for a sidebar of info, I drive truck for a living and also ride motorcycles, so this van only gets driven an average of 500 miles or less per month (other than my trip to South Dakota last August). I usually only have to put gas in it about once every 4-6 weeks. In fact, I havent even been able to put some of the 'new' cheaper gasoline in it yet!