I think it's time we RATED the tires used on our trailers, in terms of life expectancy as observed by personal experience.

YOU the USER provide the input, so that we can compare them (regardless of brand) and determine what the best ones are.

I distrust manufacturer claims, but performance on the road is a thing that can only be had by those who have used them.


This thread needs your inputs from what you have found in your own travels. Somehow, I hope we can get out of it what the best tires ARE


~Wolfie

 

My 5th came with Galaxy Road Rider ST 235/80 - R16 E rated. Used about 2/32 of tread up in about 1000 miles before replacing with Goodyear G614 (seems like a lot of wear). Had no issues with them, but did not trust them to go out west.


Now have had for 2 seasons the Goodyear G614, 235/85-R16 G rated. About 6000 miles. No idea on wear and trailer is in storage. No issues.

 

Unless you have some way to insure comparable tire maintenance and usage patterns, this information will, in my opinion, have limited or no validity. How do you compare brands between users without insuring proper air pressure, alignment, and comparable road surfaces. Plus, how do you guarantee ample sample sizes? Rating quality based on 10 of one brand versus 5 of another when manufacturer runs are in the thousands means what?

Here is a simple example. Chinese made tires make up the overwhelming majority of the U.S. market and thus account for the overwhelming majority of tire failures on towables. Suppose you manage to find tires made in the US and they make up 1% of the market and thus are reported to fail less often. Are they better tires because the fail less often or simply because there are so few of them? I am running Mastercrafts in load range E and have run Goodyear Marathons, Maxxis, and several other brands and have found no real world difference between them.

If I were a betting man, I would bet more tires fail due to lack of maintenance i.e. maintaining proper tire pressure than due to faulty construction. With large enough sample sizes, I bet the results would be a wash between brands.

Just my two cents worth.

Steve

 

I am really **** about tire maintance and I had a failure of two china bombs. One failed and the other gave out while being taken to the dealer for replacement and damage repair.


I had a set of goodyears on a previous TT. They were LT and were solid!

 

Here is the problem. I would never suggest that all tire failures are due to lack of maintenance.

My thought about this suggested data collection is simply that it is not scientific. To really be of value either sample sizes have to be very large or the data sampling has to be representative of the brand and I doubt we will have either in this case. That means to me it will just be anecdotal; that is interesting but not a good enough predictor to be useful in making decisions. We don't even know if members of this forum are representative of typical consumers of this product.

Good science is just really hard to do correctly, in my opinion.

Steve

 

I share some of the concerns as Steve and too wonder about the actual tires and their maintenance. But with that said, have read way too many stories of 'grief and pain' occasionally here as well as the dedicated website for our last 5er, iRV2, RVNet along with other sites when doing some research on what will be my choice for LT's to replace the Tow Max tires that were supplied on our 2014 5er. The Tow Max tires are very lightly constructed at about 35 pounds each with a measly 10/32nds tread. They supposedly have approximately a 3500 each pound load rating at 80 psig (probably 2 ply - but don't know as the Power King website is pretty lacking). They are a nice looking tire, but that's for sure no bearing on life expectancy. In my case, the tires were manufactured in Jan 2013, the trailer in May 2013 and it sat 'somewhere' from that date until we purchased it in July 2014. The total miles, +/- a hundred, by estimate and our use is ~3585. The tires are set at 80 psig and I have a TST TPMS system monitoring their use so they have never overheated beyond 95*F in my use. The tread wear in those few miles is 2/32nds which I consider excessive in today's world of radial tire manufacture. Simply said, I don't trust them from a bunch of anecdotal information and the fact that they are very lightly constructed and wearing too fast. When the Canadian made Marathon's on the last 5er just got too old, I put on a set of LT's which after many, many thousands of miles more then 3500, showed virtually no wear (2/32nds). I intend on doing the same next spring with this 5er as we are planning a couple of extended trips. OK, can I 'equal' the advertised load carrying ability of the Tow Max? Yes, but will have to go to a 265 instead of a 235 or 245-16. That 265 size presents a potential problem with wheel width. Do I really need the 3500 load rating? Maybe not as the trailer's GVWR is ~13K or with 3042 as the 235/245 load rating of the LTs, or 12,168 with a bit over 2200 pounds pin weight appears to be well within my needs particularly since we travel lightly loaded.

To finally answer the OP, I much prefer LTs and those made in North America.

 

Here is a link to Carlisles' info on ST Tires -

http://www.carlisletransportationpro..._Practices.pdf

There is a ton of manufacturer info on trailer tires on the Internet.

Steve

 

Steve, you are correct there is a ton of MANUFACTURER info on the internet. Unfortunately, there is a dirth of real, hard reporting (like Consumer Reports?). You and I both know that the manufacturer is going to put the most positive spin on things and hope, if they have some really outrageous claims, that the FTC doesn't notice.

 

I was thinking here not of the advertising, but just the info regarding the difference in types of construction between LTs and Sts for example.

Steve

 

Steve, if you can find info on the most common OEM tire, a Power King Tow Max, I sure would like to see it. I've looked several times but nothing of real value beyond that they have a 'nylon overwrap' for what that's worth (for a $100 buck each tire). This is what the importer says - ain't much

Power King Tire

There are 3 reviews on Tire Rack - one glowing which sounds like a dealer/importer 'plant' (think AMAZON) and two which describe what I've normally heard.

Carlisles these days are also getting very poor reviews.

With all this said, do I believe these manufacturers make all bad tires, no, of course not. I think what is happening is that OEM RV manufacturers are trying to remain competitive and a hundred dollar tire vs a $350-$400 tire often takes the unit to a new pricing level. When we were looking for a new 5er, I asked one dealer what it would cost for better tire. His answer was that the only option they had on an ordered trailer was the Goodyear G614 and it was over a thousand dollars more. If they did the swap in-house, it would be in the $1500-$1800+/- range for the five needed. I guess that this makes a pretty good argument for a $150 or so comparably sized LT tire that can be used and abused daily on a pick up truck and as a good choice for an RV. I've been doing this 5th wheel RV thing since the mid '70s and our only choices then were 8-10 ply pick up tires and in a bunch of years never had a tire failure.

 

Dave,

I am not saying this very well. There is a good deal of information that discusses the difference in construction between ST and LT tires, not by brand but by how they differ and why STs are a better choice. I am just repeating here what is in print and it is not on manufacturer's websites. I am not trying to get anyone to do anything differently in terms of what they put on their towable.

When I blogged on my website about the crap coming out of China, one retired tire engineer who now works with the RV safety program RVSEF - RV Weighing & Safety Education and does seminars for conferences like Good Sam emailed me and said having been involved with tire manufacturers and visiting plants around the world I was full of crap (he said it nicer, but that is what he meant).

I think the point you note regarding cost is major and I also think maintenance plays an important role. Recently I read a piece stating the RV tires should not be expect to last until they wear out like truck tires. They have a normal life span of "5,000 - 10,000" miles. Huh???? If I find the site, I'll post a link. Man, how much per mile does that translate into?

Reviews? Man, I swear I don't know what to do with them as their numbers are so small relative to the number produced. I have no idea who makes the best tire or even if there are any good ones. My guess is they all meet minimum standards and none rise to the head of the pack, but that is just conjecture on my part.

Steve

 

Steve - if RV tires are only supposed to last 5-10,000 miles, OMG, but that translates to a lot of bucks/year for a bunch of people. If indeed mine, which have close to 4K miles and will be 2 years old in January, will need to be replaced either at the end of the proposed spring trip or, latest, before the usual lengthy fall trip. I'll be proactive and replace them in the spring before any trip instead of chancing any peace of mind that's left me now

If this guy, who is supposed to be a 'retired' tire engineer supports continued use of ST tires for a long run application, then he had best take a much better look at use. We have a seasonal campsite where we go most weekends. Our 5er is parked there much of the summer but we usually take an early and a late lengthy trip. With one other exception, everyone else there either leaves their trailer there 365 days a year or at most, removes it and takes it back home for the winter - maybe a hundred miles. That is a common thread among many travel trailer owners now days. Those folks do well by the low end Tow Max, Carlisles, etc. Then there is that 65mph limitation on travel speed. Let's face it, we all don't travel at 65 though I try to not exceed it but it happens with a powerful tow vehicle and I have actually gotten into the 70+ range by accident. Heck, even some of the high end 5ers now come with LTs

There is a well written piece somewhere that I'll try to find again and post that goes into the differences between ST and LT tires and some of the myths surrounding the two - I think it was posted on the Super Duty forum above as well.

 

That would mean yearly tires for me on my 5er. I put around 10-15K a year.


Oh wait, that could be every 6 months.

 

What I am supposing here is that REGARDLESS of manufacturers claims (and I just don't care about them) in a truck forum of this size and shear numbers of members, many of us have done some serious towing.

And it doesn't really matter if the tires were maintained by someone who took care of their trailer like it was a race car, and they were part of the pit crew - or if they were owned by someone who could barely afford to keep a single vehicle on the road.

The statistical universe will develop as more people contribute - regardless of maintenance practices or random events.

What I am curious about is not the short life horror stories, but those who relate information about tires that really lasted one heck of a lot longer than anything that could have been reasonably expected...

That interests me.

Especially if they comment also that they actually abused those tires or neglected them - a tire that can tolerate abuse is precisely what I mean to identify.

So, middle of the road, performs as advertised, that's nice to hear.
Good GRIEF! That thing didn't run for a thousand miles! Well, that is also a thing to be aware of.


But when someone pops up and says: "Yeah, I been dragging an overloaded gooseneck full of scrap metal for ten years and just replaced the first one of these..."


THAT tends to make me sit up and take notice.


What should come out of it eventually is a few brands maybe that out perform all the others, or a load range and brand. Something...


But the good news will not develop overnight, not soon. Not many have even seen this thread, and many that have will think nothing further of it for a long time.
As I conceive of it a worthwhile result is not possible for many months yet.


I am pre-supposing an average range of users who treat their equipment very well at one end of the scale, and treat their trailers and equipment like crap at the other.


WHAT TIRES stand up to abuse? That is the question...





*This is not to be construed as an attack on manufacturers, or the industry itself - or what countries products arrive from. GET RID of that idea.


It is performance based, and based on actual results "IN THE WILD" so be prepared to take your statistics, construction methods, brand loyalty, and allegiences to whomever you work for - fold them until they are all sharp corners, and stick that.


This is about actual consumer road travel results.


** I expect after reading the above, several of you believe I am a JACK HOLE. I am not....
I'm an ordinary Guy with a JACK HOLE sense of humor


If you leave consumerism out of it - and look at pure events and results, what do we find?

 

I approach tires a bit differently as the last thing I want to do is have to deal with a flat while on the road, thus I tend to replace often. For example, the tires on my rear of our dually were getting old and one of them got a tear that could not be repaired. Rather than just replace one tire on the rear, I put on a complete set of Michelins. I also keep up to date tires on our fiver so I never try to see how many miles I can get out of a set. It just costs so much more in terms of time and trouble, plus the work involved in not getting hosed at a dealership, I over-do to keep things fresh and hopefully reduce the probabililty of trouble on the road.