Originally Posted by BruteFord

Interesting thread.


Wow I'm mostly agreeing with a cop.

IDK about "driver training" I'm cautious of government limitations on something as vital to practical freedom as a drivers license. However if we had a better driving culture so to speak I think it would do a lot of good, along with a much more practical enforcement and road design. Examples;

Keeping right IMO this used to be much more common, people knew to keep right, those that didn't were treated badly(tailgated and flashed) and learned. However LE and government has made this no longer true. LE doesn't enforce the rule, highway engineers have made left lane exits and entrances, and tailgating and/or flashing the light will get you a HUGE ticket now.

Strict enforcement of arbitrary and low speed limits. As you said they create traffic bundles, these are very dangerous, MUCH more dangerous then going 5 over. A study I read a while back found that those who on average drove 15% over the speed limit were on average the safest drivers. Why it didn't say but I could postulate, they didn't get stuck in those bunches, paid more attention, and didn't stay in the same spot relative to other vehicles(blind spot, right behind following lights) Add in different speed limits for trucks and your really messing things up. Why would anyone stay right when they'd have to change lanes every minute to pass a truck that has a lower speed limit. Of course lower truck limits are dumb to begin with very few drivers on the road are better drivers then professional truck drivers, it's the others that cause accidents as they go around and cut off the trucks that are forced to drive slow.

"a driver would only face penalty for cruising in the 'passing' lane(s) if they were going slower than the speed limit (impeding traffic)." This bothers me, and points out one of the contradictions and hypocrisy in the law and it's enforcement. EVERYONE by law must go slower then the speed limit, but somehow doing it in the left lane is illegal? So your choices in the left lane are speed and get a speeding ticket, or don't and get in impeding ticket?



I don't know what you mean here?



Excuse me WHAT, you're claiming that a highway through downtown LA, a highway through central Nevada, and a windy 2 lane country highway should have the same speed limit? That's just total BS, There are sections of wide open highway in this country where even during the day you may not see another vehicle for hours, and the highway is flat, open, and level where going 80 is perfectly safe. Others where it winds through hills, has blind curves, a lot of traffic, and cross streets where going 55 is downright dangerous. You're saying we should drive the same speed on both?



Let me put out what I would like to see.

A campaign of highway behavior spearheaded by LE, keeping right, not cutting into following distances, merging, etc. It should be a crime to cut off a commercial truck. If we/you enforced laws that actually directly effected driver courtesy and safety instead of arbitrary speed and seatbelt laws then we'd have a safer happier highway.

The elimination of a lower limit for trucks.

The elimination of left lane entrances and exits.

Variable lane differing speed limits. 60 in the right lane, 70 in the second, 80 in the third, etc.

EDIT, ohh yeah on the staying right thing, you may notice that on highways with 3 lanes or more(same direction) few trucks do, many will use the middle lane. This is cause people can't merge. The combination of on ramps and stupid drivers makes the right lane dangerous for trucks.

Originally Posted by BruteFord

Keeping right IMO this used to be much more common, people knew to keep right, those that didn't were treated badly(tailgated and flashed) and learned. However LE and government has made this no longer true. LE doesn't enforce the rule, highway engineers have made left lane exits and entrances, and tailgating and/or flashing the light will get you a HUGE ticket now.

Originally Posted by BruteFord

Strict enforcement of arbitrary and low speed limits. As you said they create traffic bundles, these are very dangerous, MUCH more dangerous then going 5 over. A study I read a while back found that those who on average drove 15% over the speed limit were on average the safest drivers. Why it didn't say but I could postulate, they didn't get stuck in those bunches, paid more attention, and didn't stay in the same spot relative to other vehicles(blind spot, right behind following lights) Add in different speed limits for trucks and your really messing things up. Why would anyone stay right when they'd have to change lanes every minute to pass a truck that has a lower speed limit. Of course lower truck limits are dumb to begin with very few drivers on the road are better drivers then professional truck drivers, it's the others that cause accidents as they go around and cut off the trucks that are forced to drive slow.

Originally Posted by BruteFord

"a driver would only face penalty for cruising in the 'passing' lane(s) if they were going slower than the speed limit (impeding traffic)." This bothers me, and points out one of the contradictions and hypocrisy in the law and it's enforcement. EVERYONE by law must go slower then the speed limit, but somehow doing it in the left lane is illegal? So your choices in the left lane are speed and get a speeding ticket, or don't and get in impeding ticket?

Originally Posted by BruteFord

I don't know what you mean here?

Originally Posted by slimbo13

Originally Posted by cmpd1781

More like 'Government' has made this no longer true......LE doesn't make the laws......They only enforce existing laws.


Don't get confused between 'laws' and 'rules'. The 'rule' that most of us recognize (i.e......stay the Hell out of the left hand lane unless you're passing) is NOT a law (unless it happens to be codified as a law in a certain state). It's a 'rule'......a 'gentlemens agreement' if you will. In a state where it's NOT codified as a 'law'.....it is not enforceable by law enforcement.


For instance. Davy Dips--t is cruising in the left-hand lane at the posted speed limit of 55mph. He's bunching up vehicles behind him who are trying to pass....but is he breaking any laws? How could he? The speed limit says 55....and he's going 55.....and the law states that is the MAXIMUM speed limit on that roadway......so how could law enforcement 'enforce' that? Answer. They cannot.


Now if Davy Dips--t was going under the speed limit in the left-hand lane......in a state with, say.....an 'impeding traffic' law.....Yes. His *** could and should be cited.

OK. I quoted and answered as I read your post.....I should have waited. But yeah....That's the way it is. I'd prefer a straight-up law that said "Get The Hell Out Of The Passing Lane Unless You Are Passing". Laws which are clear and specific are easier on everyone........and fair.

Originally Posted by cmpd1781

I think I read a similar study....and I happen to agree.

Originally Posted by cmpd1781

Left to their own devices, folks overwhelming end up driving up to their capabilities (not always.....but there you are.....think 'teenagers'.......).

Originally Posted by cmpd1781

Think about it. Under the 'rules' that we all espouse (i.e......keeping out of the left-hand lane unless passing), that leaves precisely ONE lane to 'cruise' in (i.e.....'travel' lane). And that one, single right-hand 'travel' lane is also accommodating traffic exiting or entering the interstate......not to mention the plain old 'slow' drivers. If you strictly abide the 'rules' (not the 'laws'....the 'rules'.....), you will find yourself spending a LOT of time moving over for the exit/entry traffic.......and passing the slower drivers.


Which of course bungs up the 'passing' lane.


I'm a 'cruiser'.....I prefer to just tool along in one of the center lanes with the tunes playing and let the other idiots fight with each other in the right lane or the passing lane........

So. What I would like to see would be all 3 or 4-lane interstates (in each direction, of course.....)......minimum. Some urban areas temporarily have even more lanes........But the open road should be 6 or 8 lane interstates.....

And I'd LOVE to see all that goddamned gas and diesel tax money go to nothing BUT roads, highways, and interstates..........Without the politicians using a lot of it for crap like trains and trolleys.