2013 F250 6.7L with 14k miles. Very strongly considering the extended warranty through Flood to cover costly repairs up to 100k miles, but if I decide to forego that ESP or do it after that $2k warranty purchase expires, what's involved in a DPF and/or EGR delete? Other then warranty void, what are the risks (failing emissions tests leading to inability to license, cop stops with tickets, etc.) and what are the components and labor/modifications necessary?

This is a daily driver, light hauling (5k TT) truck that I'd like to last for 20 years or 350k miles...

Thanks for your comments--this forum is great!

 

I cannot answer your question directly, but it has been said on this forum that if you expect to do some kind of dealer-trade-in with this truck in the future on a new truck that they wont take it without the emissions gear in place. Of course that assumes that they look too, but for what that equipment would cost them to make it whole again, you can bet that many do check.

So, if that is a concern to you, keep that in mind.

 

Buddy had that happen to them a couple months ago..
got a deal, drove the new truck home. dealer came and got the old truck,
called the next day and said need $4K to fix the truck.. deal died.

next day another dealer took it without problems. same tradein value.

 

I think it's location based. There are plenty of dealers around me that sell and take in deleted trucks all the time. They know it makes it more reliable and they know that it's what we(consumers) want. It's very simple to delete.

Your going to get your tuner, plug it in, tune the truck. You are then going to block off the EGR, and/or remove it, remove and replace the DPF with a straight pipe. You are done for the very basic "delete". Now with that being said, most of us who go a little more into it who plan on keeping our trucks, rip out the DEF tank, all lines associated with that and everything else. I even took out the filler neck crap so there is no way to put DEF in my truck.

 

Lol, dealers up here are selling them deleted for Pete's sake. Also on the gear, why not just store it in the shed and throw it back on when trade in time comes?

I know where my gear is

 

To a point, but you would be surprised. There are trucks that are exempted from emissions, but dealers still won't take the truck, because it is against federal law (not state, fed).

As to it being more reliable, I'm not really sold on that. Bigger turbo, bigger injectors on my 6.0 that had one of the worst years for the EGR cooler and after 200k miles and 9 yrs, it still had the original cooler even with putting down more then 500hp at the rear wheels (all four of them). I think more plays into people not knowing (or wanting to know) how to take care of these things. Hell, I never had to even clean the EGR valve once.

Statistically speaking with all this negativity about emissions equipment, what are the real odds of that being the case on a 6.0 given all the bad thoughts that people have with emissions and that truck?

I just willing to bet it's more about people stuck in the past where emission equipment really did hinder operation, much more then what it is today. Plus, I'm highly risk adverse, I can just see me being one of the few SOBs that is caught running a truck illegally.

 

Search function:

Search egt sensor shut my truck down, nox sensor failure, def contamination, def heater failure and yes, egr issues.

I had two check engines lights within my first 6 months of ownership, one being a bad nox sensor.

3 years without now thanks to my mini maxx

 

DEF contamination is due to outside issues (how long it's been stored, how it's been stored etc).

Sensor issues are electrical issues. Any bad sensor of a major component could cause that effect. That's just the joy of being an electrical beast. I've had no starts on my tractors due to a bad sensor, doesn't mean that I blame the component that the sensor monitors.

Yes, the more you add, the more that you run the risk of having these little joys to deal with, but that's a reflection of bad sensors, not necessarily the major component that they monitor. Any sensor can flake out like that.

Also, statistically speaking, using the search function in a forum such as this, is going to inherently yield more troubles then anything else as people come to boards like this more often then not seeking answers, so that does skew the pool just a smidge.

 

We are not talking about a 6.0, that is a completely different engine. I can tell you that I personally broke down 3 times because of an EGT sensor that failed when I was moving my wife and myself cross country from Georgia to Washington state. I am definitely not alone in that fight, people even carry the wrench and spare sensors in their truck. I was not simply wanting to keep doing that. My truck had 13k at that point and in my opinion that was too many times for a new truck. All of the new diesels have the technology on them and I like Ford the best. I then decided to take it into my own hands and make the truck more reliable for ME. So then when I deleted my truck, I took out my EGR and DPF which Ford states needs replacing at some increment of miles, I can't remember what it is right now.

Also can you please link me to the federal penal code which prohibits dealers from buying and selling modified trucks? I am telling you right now that I could go take pictures of BRAND new F350s that are tuned. It's been done FOREVER. Mustangs, Camaros, etc every brand every dealer.

 

I was talking specifically about the EGR which is also on these trucks. Now when it comes to DPF, DEF etc, sure that's totally different compared to the 6.0s. But the same concerns applied to both generations of vehicles.



Tuning isn't necessarily against the law with the exception of California (at least the caveats that tuning companies put on their devices and how they say for off road use in Cali).

I can tell you right now, when I traded in my DRW the 5th question out of the guy's mouth was is the emissions system still fully functional? If that wasn't an issue, then way ask? Also, they will not do deletes at this same dealership. If they get caught doing a delete, they can be shut down. 7 shops in the 20 yrs that I have lived here have been shut down for doing deletes. If it's illegal to do deletes, don't you think it's also illegal to sell vehicles with deletes for street use?

Now, do some places do it? Sure, doesn't mean that they are doing things legally though.

 

The EGR system that was on the 6.0 is not the same one thats on the 6.7. It is more refined, yet it's still prone to failures.

I want you to go to every dealership that sells Mustangs, Camaros, Corvettes, Challengers, etc. Do the vast majority of those sales still have the stock cat on them? Yes, but there are the "special" models that the dealership removes, throws on straights, loudmouths, flow masters, etc and sells them. The only difference is that they pollute more! I understand your point from your personal view, but that same personal view in my 6+ states of living shows that dealers do and will do modifications to the trucks, emissions including to make them more sellable. Even the 6.0s dealers are selling with tuners with the trucks, EGR deletes and straight piped!

 

The 6.0 was even "more prone to failures" given that it was the first gen (which is to be expected to a degree and yet despite how much I pushed it with the weight I was towing and the HP/TQ it was putting down, still had the original setup from supposedly one of the worst years imagine that.

Yes, I have seen that. I've seen dealers put lifts on brand new trucks. I'm in no way saying that it doesn't happen. It doesn't make it legal, that is my point. If there wasn't something that could come back to the dealership, why would a dealership run the risk of killing a deal like in this example:

I have absolutely no doubt (and in fact, seen it many times) were dealership will do things like put tuners/lifts. I haven't seen one do a delete, they might hollow out the cat, but I haven't seen a delete from the dealership.

Bare in mind, if you get a vehicle like that brand new from a dealership, i would only take it to the dealership for warranty work, I highly doubt another dealership will get it under warranty (or attempt to anyway).

Just because some dealerships do that, doesn't mean that it's legal, it just means that they are playing the odds that they won't get caught for a sale. The dealership that I go to just happens not to mess with the emissions equipment. If you have ever seen the show TRUCKS! (which is filmed around here), one of the custom exhaust shops that they use (which dualled out my F150) won't touch the cat or deletes and they cite shops that were closed down for that very thing.

It's all about the odds and how risk adverse you are.

 

I did question at some point the legality of it all, but your main point was that dealerships won't and don't do it.

To the OP sorry for the thread hijack. You can PM if you need anymore information on how to obtain said parts for delete.

Matt

 

Yes, you are correct that is what I typed:


I missed typed, but there is absolutely no way for anyone to know that. That hit is on me.

But let's look at the legality of it all.

Go here for what the Texas Commission on Environmental Quality has to say about it as it applies to Texas law.

Now, I'm not going to look up at all 50 states (and territories), but I would be willing to bet that there is something along the lines of the same thing for all.

 

dead on man... I don't understand why guys don't keep the original equipment put up.. I know right where everything from dpf to intake to headlights... anytime I've traded in...dealer always says original/stock is the best sellers for them...so they get the best trade in value... NOT TO HARP on this still....but I know 3 well known dealerships here in florida that delete/add tuners.. so are they taking a chance?? who knows but they sell trucks every day of the year...