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Old 05-30-2014, 10:38 AM
83frankenstein250 83frankenstein250 is offline
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Misfire in cylinder 5 (P0305) '06 Expedition EB 5.4 3v

My mom bought an '06 Expedition Eddie Bauer with 88xxx in at the end of March or this year. It has a three month warranty that is quickly coming to an end and the dealer is giving us the run around with the problem (possibly to wait out the warranty period) so if possible, I was hoping someone on here would have some ideas as to what could be causing the problem she is having. I work on vehicles often and am somewhat familiar with them but not some of the newer technology like variable valve timing.

So anyway, when she first test drove the vehicle, I hooked my computer up to it, and it needed an O2 sensor and had a misfire in cylinder 5. The dealership replaced the sensor and the coil pack on 5. Their explanation was that when the engine was washed, the water messed up the coil. She drove it again and nothing else seemed to be wrong so she bought it. A few weeks later, the check engine light came on and cylinder 3 had a misfire. They replaced the coil and again, it seemed like everything was ok. About the same time, she had a slight vibration which she mentioned when they replaced the coil on 3. The vibration felt like riding over rumble strips. They told her it was the torque converter or a lockout converter and that it was normal. I and a few garages suggested to have the spark plugs replaced to fix it. They were replaced but still had the same vibration afterwards. They also replaced the fuel filter while it was there to have the plugs done. The same garage that did the plugs (a Ford dealership) load tested the coils and ran diagnostics which all came back fine. They suggested that it might be a transmission problem. Off to AAMCO. AAMCO said that it was definitely not a transmission or torque converter problem however it may be a bent driveshaft. Not longer than a couple days later, she had no power going up hills or at WOT and with either of these conditions the check engine light would flash. She pulled into a garage as it was acting up and they cleaned the MAF sensor and sent her on her way. It went off after these conditions were no longer present. I checked it and it was P0305. The last times she started it up, it's been idling like it was cold out starting at 1500 RPMs and working its way down. The temperature wasn't below 70 at those times. She went back to the seller and told them they needed to do something.

As I type this up, it is in the garage at the dealer it was purchased from. They are replacing the cam phaser. Not sure if it's one or both I just know that it's being replaced. It has been in the garage since Wednesday morning. They replaced the #5 fuel injector and spark plug in cylinder 5 because it looked bad. The spark plugs however only have close to 500 miles on them which leads me to believe it has been a problem in cylinder 5 the whole time. It also has been compression tested and that was said to be good.

From what I do understand about the cam phaser, it retards and advances the timing, so correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think it would only cause a problem in one cylinder it would be one whole side. The vehicle also never made the noises that I see everyone complain about when the phaser goes bad. Any ideas on what it could be would be appreciated.
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Old 05-30-2014, 11:10 AM
alloro alloro is offline
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Well you have to give the dealer credit, they seem to be doing a lot trying to fix it and not just brush her off. The shuddering while driving sounds to me like the wrong fluid type could be in the tranny. As to the #5 misfire, since it passed a compression test, has a new COP, spark plug, and injector, that only leaves wiring or a bad ECM. A bad ECM could also cause the shuddering while driving problem.
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Old 05-30-2014, 11:11 AM
83frankenstein250 83frankenstein250 is offline
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Also forgot to say that the vibration only occurs under certain conditions, not all the time. My mom originally thought it was between 40 and 45 however when I drove it I was able to duplicate it at different speeds in different gears as long as the RPMs where in the same range which I think is about 1000-1500. When Overdrive is turned off, it doesn't do it and that's how the dealer told her to drive it but that's not a good solution obviously.
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Old 05-30-2014, 11:22 AM
83frankenstein250 83frankenstein250 is offline
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Originally Posted by alloro View Post
Well you have to give the dealer credit, they seem to be doing a lot trying to fix it and not just brush her off. The shuddering while driving sounds to me like the wrong fluid type could be in the tranny. As to the #5 misfire, since it passed a compression test, has a new COP, spark plug, and injector, that only leaves wiring or a bad ECM. A bad ECM could also cause the shuddering while driving problem.
I didn't really get into all of it with the dealer. There were two incidents I left out. One was where she took it there to have it looked at and the mechanic took it out, said there was nothing wrong and refused to let her show him how to get it to do it and was very clear that it was in her head. The other was when he told her this was normal and that as mentioned in the post I just made adding info where he told her to drive with OD off. He also started screaming at her because she was not willing to accept that and was so angry he was almost screaming when he answered his phone while she was there. Finally after putting up a huge fight, they took it in Wednesday and have been actually doing something. Up until now, all they really did was replace 2 COPs and an O2 sensor, 1 COP and the sensor being before the sale. Everything else was other garages.

I was thinking it may be the ECM as well since I had this problem with my Chrysler. This would melt the coil on only one cylinder which led me to question if the ECM was bad on the Expedition since it wasn't killing the coil. Is there a way to get just the ECM tested or would that have shown up on the diagnostics the Ford dealership ran?
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Old 06-05-2014, 05:17 PM
83frankenstein250 83frankenstein250 is offline
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We got the Expedition back on Tuesday and all seemed to be well. Today I asked my mom if she had done anything she had before that caused the problem and she said no. I told her it would be a good idea and she ran it at WOT for a few seconds and P0305 reared its ugly head again. It will be going back to the dealer in a little while but before it does, I was wondering if someone would be able to tell me which two wires on the plug at the PCM are the ones that connect to the cylinder 5 coil. I would like to probe them just to see if this is the problem. The cam phaser solenoid is what was replaced before we picked it up. I didn't think it would fix it and obviously it didn't.
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Old 06-06-2014, 06:57 PM
pdqford pdqford is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 83frankenstein250 View Post
I was wondering if someone would be able to tell me which two wires on the plug at the PCM are the ones that connect to the cylinder 5 coil.
Only one wire from the #5 COP connects to the PCM connector.
It will have the same color/stripe as at the COP connector.

(All the COPs share a common wire color for power. Each COP has a unique color control wire that is controled by the PCM.)
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Old 06-07-2014, 09:28 AM
83frankenstein250 83frankenstein250 is offline
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Thanks for the info pdqford. If this were not still under warranty, I would go by that however when I looked at the plugs on the computer, the only way to see the wires is to cut the electrical tape and the shielding and I'm not willing to do that. I actually called a Ford dealership yesterday and they gave me the wiring diagram as well as the diagram for each of the three plugs that go onto the pcm. I will probably post them for anyone else who needs them.

Just an update on what's going on. Yesterday, we got a call that the catalytic converter was plugged. Supposedly the guy put a scope in the O2 sensor hole and determined this. It's not covered under warranty and they wanted $750 just for the part. So we brought the vehicle back home. After calling a few different Ford garages, it sounds like the cat being bad is very unlikely because the only way to see it bad is when it's completely crumbled and that still should affect one whole side not just one cylinder. The guy said that before he checked the cat, he replaced the cam phaser sprocket which of course did nothing. When I went to the Ford dealership to pick up the diagrams, I took along the cam phaser solenoid and asked if the middle section that the guy that fixed it claimed was missing was actually missing and the Ford guy said there was nothing wrong with how the part looked. So at this point, we're starting to wonder if the guy at the dealer that we bought the Expedition from has any business even touching something this new. With this in question, I may redo the compression test when I check the wires. We did find out yesterday that at about 1250 RPMs in Park, the same place it misfires and feels like you're driving over rumble strips when in gear, it sounds like something is rattling inside the engine. Again this makes me wonder if it could be a valve or something a compression test would expose.

In the past few days, after the cam phaser solenoid was replaced, we have started hearing something that reminds me of my '98 Explorer with the SOHC engine when the tensioners went out. It's sounds similar to a diesel. Could this be because something was screwed up during installation?

I'm going to test the wires to the #5 COP in a little while. If the wires turn out to be alright, is there a way that I can test the pcm or does a Ford garage need to do it?
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Old 06-07-2014, 11:18 AM
alloro alloro is offline
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Originally Posted by 83frankenstein250 View Post
It's not covered under warranty and they wanted $750 just for the part. Ford warranty on catalytic converters is 8 years or 80,000 miles
Gee isn't that perfect timing since the Ford warranty on catalytic converters is 8 years or 80,000 miles and you're in the 8th year with 88K on the truck. It's almost like they engineered it to fail at just the right time.
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Old 06-07-2014, 01:52 PM
83frankenstein250 83frankenstein250 is offline
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Gee isn't that perfect timing since the Ford warranty on catalytic converters is 8 years or 80,000 miles and you're in the 8th year with 88K on the truck. It's almost like they engineered it to fail at just the right time.
I didn't say anything about the warranty being 8 years or 80,000 miles so I don't know if you accidentally typed in the wrong spot or what happened there. It wasn't Ford that said the cat is bad, it was the garage at the dealer that the vehicle was purchased from which is a NAPA garage or something like that. Every Ford dealership that we contacted said that it was either not or most likely not the catalytic converter causing only one cylinder to have a problem. One garage had suggested it was the Ford death rattle which I have not heard of before. Looked up videos but there's nothing that calls it that. Either way, my mom has decided she is going to offer him the chance to replace the engine or take it back otherwise she is going to take legal action because as far as we know, someone who has no business doing what he is doing is simply throwing parts at it and may be doing more damage by incorrectly replacing them. Not to mention it has been a fight most of the way. If she still ends up stuck with it, then I'll come back here for more help.
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Old 06-07-2014, 03:17 PM
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If the tranny is shuttering only with the OD button activated, it could very easily by a shutter created with the converter lockup between 3rd and OD.

It's kind of like running over the rumble dots bots they put on the road to warn you of an upcoming stop.

That's a pretty common symptom here and should be addressed if still under warranty.

I changed out fluid and added Lucas Oil Tranny additive around 80,000 miles and it eventually went away.
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Old 06-07-2014, 07:40 PM
alloro alloro is offline
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Originally Posted by 83frankenstein250 View Post
I didn't say anything about the warranty being 8 years or 80,000 miles so I don't know if you accidentally typed in the wrong spot or what happened there.
It was no accident and you didn't have to say a thing about a warranty. It's federal law that car manufacturers have to warranty catalytic converters for 8 years or 80K miles. This has nothing to do with the warranty that came with the sale of the vehicle, this goes all the way back to the manufacturer (Ford) having to warranty them for that period of time.
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