This is my first cam swap so I really don't know much and I figure it's better to ask than break something. Anyway, it was going great until I put the water pump back on. Apparently I didn't use enough sealant because when I filled the radiator water started dripping down from near the top of the timing cover, about half way between the thermostat and distributor. I can't tell if it is coming from the timing cover or water pump gasket. So I ordered new gaskets and more sealant. If I get it apart and it looks like it was the water pump gasket, do I need to pull the timing cover again just to make sure it didn't leak too and get water in the oil? Do I need to do something to the new cam after the lube is going to sit for a couple days? Does it matter that it's going to be below freezing when I start it up? I have a heater if it needs to be a certain temperature. Thanks a lot for any help.

 

Make sure it's not just coming from the upper radiator hose or thermostat housing. Possibly some crud got between parts and holding them apart where the gasket is... Maybe a piece of old gasket still stuck in there... I doubt any coolant got inside the timing cover area...

The temperature shouldn't matter, but I'd prolly prefer to do it with a warmer engine/garage...

Is this a 351M or 400 engine? What cam did you use?

 

Yeah I just checked and it's definitely coming from the pointy area on the top of the timing cover, I just can't tell if it's from the block or pump side. It's a 400 and the cam is a COMP 252H, I didn't want to have to mess with valve springs because the motor has less than 40K on it. What makes you think water wouldn't go into the timing area? I replaced both the pump and cover gaskets so I would think they would be just as likely to leak. But like I said before I'm 17 and this is the first time I've done something like this so I don't know much haha.

 

If coolant got behind the timing cover the oil will turn a milky white after the engine is run. My brother and I have that exact problem right now with his 400. His was also leaking water from the same spot at the top of the timing cover without the engine even running. He's also younger, 21 and its his first motor build. We probably should have went with a cheaper engine instead of a 4V 400 for our first build

The best thing to do would be to drain the coolant, pull the water pump and timing cover, check for water in the oil pan and replace the gaskets again.

 

Yeah that's pretty much what I'm planning to do. What is the best way of checking for water in the oil? And if there is water in the oil is there something I can do to atleast save some of my $40 worth of brand new lucas oil?

 

If there is coolant in the oil you will see it. They will not mix in the pan if the engine hasn't been run yet. Coolant is heavier than oil so if it's in there it would settle at the bottom of the pan. Quick sample from the drain plug will tell you if it's present. You shouldn't need to replace the filter if the oil hasn't been circulated yet. Saving $40 in oil isn't worth risking a $1000 or more in damage. I've read that the glycol in coolant eats bearings and milky oil doesn't lubricate very well.

Did you buy new lifters with the cam?


-Anybody have any tips for sealing the timing cover and water pump on these cleveland engines?

 

Ok thanks, yeah I got new lifters with the new cam, I'm stupid but I'm not That stupid haha. I'm supposed to get the gaskets today, I think I'm going to buy some of the grey RTV gasket maker like this:
Permatex Ultra Grey Rigid High-Torque RTV Silicone Gasket Maker (3.5 oz) 82194: Purchase the best Threadlockers at Advance Auto Parts
I would think that would seal it if anything would.

 

UPDATE: I think my problem was I didn't read the directions on the silicone and it said to let it set up for 24 hours, I gave it about half an hour... There was water in the oil but not much and I'm pretty sure I got it all since oil started coming out and the oil still looked just like new. I'm gonna be busy tomorrow so I'm letting the silicone set until Thursday and then I'm going to finish torquing the water pump bolts and get everything back together and start it. Before I start it I need to prime it right? I know the trick of an extension and a 5/16 socket or whatever but what is the best way to tell when it is primed?

 

. Turn on key, should be able to see oil pressure on the gauge while priming it... also, the drill motor will prolly sound like its bogging down a bit as it pumps oil at pressure... should only take about 20-30 seconds... some like to do it with the valve covers off to see if oil is getting to all 16 lifters/rocker arms... crank engine over for a second a couple times to make sure oil gets everywhere...

. The gaskets should seal everything up if the mating surfaces are clean and flat... the silicone is just to prevent the gaskets from eventually seeping oil and coolant... don't tighten bolts so tight you warp parts and crush gaskets excessively near the bolts...

 

Ok, thanks. That was another part of the problem, there was a tiny bit of gasket material still on the top of the water pump that I hadn't seen and I think it was what leaked bad. And I'm using the torque specs out of my haynes manual so I'm not over torquing.

 

Well I got it done today, she didn't fire up perfectly, it kinda sputtered and wouldn't accelerate so I turned it back off, changed the ignition timing a little bit and it fired right up and purred like a kitten, checked everything afterwards and it's all good so I'm pretty happy. Thanks a lot for all the help everybody.

 

. Congrats! We're so glad you got it running good, working OK, and no longer leaking... gives a big sense of accomplishment... the confidence to tackle even bigger projects...

 

That's exactly what I was thinking... Now it's time to get my other 400 rebuilt that's been sitting in the corner and get it in the 66 haha that thing is gonna be hot.

 

I finally got around to setting the ignition timing, I put the vaccuum guage on and tuned for the most vaccuum. It bounces a little between 17.5-18.5 in/hg at 700 rpm, which I figure is about right since the stock cam ran around 19in/hg. I put the timing light on to see where it's at and the balancer doesn't go that far, it was reading somewhere around 30-35* initial timing, with vac advance disconnected. Is my timing light junk or what? It had said I was running around 15-20* before I did the swap, so I just don't get this. Is it possible to put the balancer on wrong? Also, when I have it idle slow, around 500 rpm, it lopes quite a bit, I didn't think this cam would lope at all being a .468in lift and 206 duration, is this normal?

 

. Stock cams of base level engines usually have an intake duration of around 180-195 degrees, so a 206 degree would prolly have a slight lope at low idle speed...

. As far as I know, my '78 351M has a stock cam and it has always had a lope to the idle, but I didn't buy it new, so a previous owner may have installed another cam... I'll have to look at it when converting it back to a proper 400"/408"... with prolly a 218/228 cam... and a definite lope...

. Your timing tab may be incorrect one and/or the outer ring on your damper may have slipped on the rubber... a piston stop tool (~$5 or can be homemade) can be used to verify all that... remark with a paint pen to correct positions... also, I think 351M and 400 use different dampers with different balance/unbalance characteristics... maybe even different timing position marks/timing tabs...