Hi all, This is along post, forgive me but I wanted to relay all of my experiences in order to get the proper info out there and hopefully find some answers here. Help!
PS: I'm in no way thinking it is the tunes here, I name Gearhead only becasue that is what I run.

I’m having an unusual coolant/overheating problem that surfaced on a recent trip. The truck is a 2007 F350, 99K miles at the time, 6.0 engine 5R110 trans; with blue spring update, Sinister coolant filter, Gearhead (Matt’s) 13K unlimited tow tune, Banks 4” turbo back exhaust with Cat still intact, 35” tires on stock 3.73 gears. The truck is leveled and has a Buckstop Bumper and winch. I have a Scangauge II and monitor EOT, ECT, FICM Power and FICM Logic Power; I have a trans temp gauge and EGT gauge on the pillar. My EOT/ECT spread has been 7-9 degrees (60 mph on level ground at full operating temp), the cold soak is typically within 1-2 degrees of ambient temps, so EOT/ECT is within acceptable limits as I’ve learned here.

I normally run Delo 400 15W40 oil, or Motorcraft 15W40 (not synthetic) changed every 5000 miles, more often if I tow heavy or have a lot of idling time. I had the cooling system flushed and installed Chevron Delo Extended Life 50/50 mix coolant when the filter was installed in September 2012 and a new Ford degas cap. Changed the coolant filter after 90 days, there was not much in the way of material in the filter media when we cut it open (less than a teaspoon). I have done all kinds of driving with the vehicle, with heavy loads in the bed and with the tag trailer behind it, normally about 9K pounds trailer and cargo. I have not ever had the coolant temperature go above 220 on a long grade, keeping the EGT below 1100 and trying for 1000; I get out of the throttle or shift back. My enclosed car hauler weighs about 4400 empty, after installing a lot of E-track, winch, battery, electric jack, etc.

So on this trip, I had a 5500 pound Lexus SUV for cargo plus some other miscellaneous household goods and left from sunny Central Coast California for San Antonio, via Interstate 10 with some excursions into the mountains of New Mexico (Alamogordo, Roswell, Carlsbad) then back down intoTexas and Interstate 10. We typically drive the posted speed limit or what is safe dependent of traffic, IE speed limit 75 we go that or below. Most of the way it is 70-75 except for a stretch in Texas that is posted 80, we chose 75. We hit the Cat Scales near San Antonio, the trailer axles were 10800 (slightly overloaded), the truck axles were 10200 (GVW is 11400). The truck ran great, it never heated up past 220 on the uphill pulls, the fan was kicking in at 207-210 degrees on the Scangauge and it would bring the temperature right back down to 195-200. It did this for 2600 miles that we put on the odometer. We arrived at San Antonio,unloaded our cargo, parked the trailer for a few days and then ran down to Corpus Christi and used our vacation home there for about 10 days. I had the Ford dealer in CC change the engine oil; they put Motorcraft 15W40 (not synthetic) with Motorcraft filters.

We made the trip back up to San Antonio, retrieved our trailer and started the trip back to California. I chose to put the Gearhead 8K tow tune in. I monitored the EGT and stayed below 1000-1100 on grades. The truck ran fine until about midway across New Mexico, it started to heat up on flat ground, ambient temps about 88, spiking 230 degrees coolant with similar slightly corresponding oil temp, according to the Scangauge and the dash temp gauge (no values just high reading; then it came back down, this continued about every 70 miles for the next 300 miles until we reached Tucson for the night where the ambient temp was about 95. I again checked all the cooling system and under the truck for any signs of a leak, and found none, the degas bottle and the cap was clean, the coolant level was at the full cold mark (the new full hot!) when running at operating temperature. We started again the next day and it startedup again once we got West of Tucson, only now it hit 245, and finally 250 with a corresponding 240 oil temp, on the scangauge, a warning light on the idiot panel came on “Check Cooling System” or some words to that effect. The fan was kicked on at about 210 and appeared to be working; you could clearly hear it without any unusual noises to make me think it was malfunctioning. I pulled over, hit the high idle and checkedfor obvious leaks, there were none however the degas showed some signs of leakage around the cap and I could see traces of red coolant having leaked out. I let it cool down and slowly released pressure and added nearly half a gallon of coolant (50/50 Chevron ELC), put the cap back on and started down the road again. For the next 100 miles the coolant stayed within normal limits, not going past 220-225 coolant temp with oil staying about 10 -15 degrees lower, the cooling fan was kicking in. We stopped in Gila Bend, AZ, my wife bought a lot of pottery and yard art there since we had an essentially empty trailer. I loaded up probably 1000 pounds of stuff and centered most of it just ahead of the center of the axles (trailer now sits at maybe 6000 pounds, maybe 800 on the hitch. I checked the coolant again and it looked good, so we hit the road again intending to stop in Palm Desert, now the ambient temp was high 90’s expected to get to 105 in Eastern California. We got as far as part way up the eastern face of Chiriaco Summit and truck started overheating again, the coolant spiked reaching 245, I looked for a place to pull over and by the time I did it had reached 250 with corresponding oil temps near 240, and the idiot light coolant message came on again. I high idled until the coolant temp came down to 210 the oil was at 215, then shut it off. I let it cool down some, released pressure from the degas and put another half a gallon of coolant/water in. I put theGearhead 13K unlimited tow tune back in and made it to the summit, then cruised downhill into Palm Desert. I checked fluids again and added about another quart of distilled water (I had run out ofextra ELC by then). We left the nex tday and made the last 350 miles without incident, averaging 60-65 mph (speedlimit in CA is 55 towing). I’m thinking malfunctioning thermostat through all of this due to the rapid onset of overheating. We replaced the thermostat when we got home. I put the Gearhead 8K tow tune back in for running around town and light duty towing, no issues. So for fun, I put the Gearhead SRL tune back in, drove it a few days. On my way home from the coast we go over small grade, about 8 miles at 6%, only to 1700 feet elevations; running 60-65 the truck began to heat up again, hitting 240 near the top of the grade. I made it to the top then cruised downhill to our property (about another 5 miles). I immediately cooled the truck down on high idle until we got to 195, then shut it off and put the Gearhead 8K tow tune back in.

The next day I took it to the shop that gets my diesel business, he has pressure tested the cooling system, no leaks, he has vacuum tested it, with no leaks, and checked for HC in the coolant to ensure there is not a head gasket problem pressurizing the degas, No apparent issues. The dipstick is clear, no evidence of coolant in the oil. It took nearly a half a gallon of coolant again. You can see the degas bottle is pressuring and leaking past the cap. This guys works on a lot of 6.0 Fords, but also other brands as well. He does know the Fords very well though. It is his belief that the engine oil coolermay be root of my problems. I’m shaking my head at this; the reason I saythis is due to ECT/EOT deltas are normal and stay close to one another even when it did heat up, there were no large deltas between them, which to me indicates a cooler doing what it should. If it is clearly the engine oil cooler then I’ll happily shell out the money and bullet proof air to oil cool it and while we’re in the change the EGR cooler. But I’m not convinced. Has anyone else had an experience like this and had it be the Engine Oil Cooler?

Stumped….

-Mark

 

ok, i'm all over the place. if u have to add about half gallon of coolant twice, then tat tells me of a more serious problem. u are losing coolant. the only difference is tat ur not losing coolant outside but it's seeping internally. i have a crazy idea.

when u get a chance, u might want to drain some oil into a clear glass bottle and let it sit for a bit. if there's coolant in there, it should float to the top. u will notice the difference and u would have pinpointed the problem.

couple of questions for the OP. when the flush was done, did they use vc-9? did they use restore plus? did they also flush multiple times, cos i've seen dealerships and shops just flushing once or twice and they consider it done. tats insufficient.

another thing too. i'm sure someone will chime in on this but the proper procedure which i was instructed to do on our 6.0s is to use an ELC concentrate to fill up after the flush, and not to use 50/50..... cos if whomever did not drain from the passenger side as well as the driver side, then u would have about 3.5 gallons of regular water or distilled water, and u'll put in a 50/50 mix which in essence it's not the correct TRUE 50/50 or 60/40 which is required in our cooling system, and tat may explain why ur overheating so quickly.

sorry i'm just trying to recreate possible scenarios. i dont mean to second guess or be offensive. i apologize if i offended anyone.

 

i've had the traditional problems, white smoke, plugged egr cooler, plugged oil cooler, blah blah. to be specific, i had a hydrolocked engine, but i was lucky tat my headgaskets were not blown. in fact, i found my coolant tat had went missing and it went straight to the motor oil. oh and dip stick didnt tell me nothing. i had to physically drain some oil into a clear glass jar to discover that coolant was in my oil. it was a nightmare.

 

Sure sounds like head gaskets to me, but you can certainly blow coolant out the degas reservoir when you let the coolant get to 250 degrees - that is just too hot! I wonder if the fan or water pump is on the weak side ??

 

Yeah. Only way to find out is to take em apart.

 

Or it could also be tat the coolant is not the proper 50/50 or 60/40 ratio and there is only so much regular water can do to keep the heat down.

 

I know quite a few people run tunes with the stock head bolts, and a number of them post up here saying it is OK. I am sorry, but I will never believe that is a good idea. I agree with a post that npccpartsman made awhile back - stating that a good custom tune can actually lower cylinder pressure. However, I believe that it can not cover all engine situations and, at a minimum, tunes will generate more heat than a stock engine. This adds to the risk. If you have a failed or biased sensor, I believe a tuned engine is more at risk than a stock one.

 

Agreed - weak coolant will puke more readily than coolant at the proper concentration.

 

Oh heck no. No offense to the other it's but if I'm running tunes, I'm gonna make sure I get them ARP head studs first. Just being my usual paranoid self.

 

Dom, not offended a bit, you gave some good questions to ask, I simply don't know if the mechanic did it that way or not. One can assume but you know what that does, it makes an *** out of u and me.....

-Mark

 

Mark, I gave thought to the water pump today as well, maybe it isn't as efficient as it could be. It's something else to check.

-Mark

(Quote Snuggy) i've had the traditional problems, white smoke, plugged egr cooler, plugged oil cooler, blah blah. to be specific, i had a hydrolocked engine, but i was lucky tat my headgaskets were not blown. in fact, i found my coolant tat had went missing and it went straight to the motor oil. oh and dip stick didnt tell me nothing. i had to physically drain some oil into a clear glass jar to discover that coolant was in my oil. it was a nightmare. <?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-comfficeffice" /><o></o>
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Dom
2005 F-350 PSD 6.0 KING RANCH 4X4 DRW

I'll drain some oil and send it off for sampling as well as putting some in a jar to see if it seperates. It's probably the best way to measure whats in the crankcase.

-Mark

PS: Thanks Mark and Dom both, that's why I posted it up here was to come up with some other possibilities.

 

Good point Mark. I may have done something when running the hot tunes that has surfaced under heavy load when running pretty much stock except for transmission shift points. It was a chance that I chose to take and may now be paying for the consequences of my actions. I can live with that, wifey maybe not so much, but if it is indeed heads or headgaskets it my opportunity to put if back together so it will be more durable. We have plans to start towing a fifth wheeler around the country with this truck so it would be prudent to make it to coin the term, bulletproof now.

-Mark

 

sound like heads lifting, but...
first offcheck for hc in the degas bottle is basicly a BS deal. do the test as outlined in tsb 09-08-03.
the waterpumps dont have many issues. 03/04 like to break in half when that happens they over heat quickly.
take a look at the belt as that come up as a little suspect with your milage.
a bit of info on the belt they often look good and are not.
to test it you need to be able to active command fanvar# and moniter fanss and engine rpm.
the water pump wich is drive on the back(flat) side of the fan will slip, sometimes making a noise sometimes not

 

Thanks cheezit, I just pulled the bulletin and read it, there may be procedures or steps done in testing by the mechanic that I need to look at. I'll take a copy of the bulletin with me.

-Mark

 

Ur welcome. We're here for each other. It will warm my soul to see u resolve ur issues and ur back up running like u should.