I went up into Kansas today to see another early 60's 4x4. For sale in pieces for $1000

The front clip is off so I found the serial number easily. The original vin on the frame does not match the other two vins on the warranty tag and title (the warranty tag and title do match). The title and tag shows 365 and the frame show 098 for the last three numbers. All other numbers and letters match.

Usually I just walk away as I do not want to get involved with having a bad title, even on a parts truck.

This one was a bit strange as the original vin was modified as follows:

Original: xxxxxxx xxxx098

New: xxxxxxx xxxx398
65

The original zero has a 3 stamped over it. Below the 98 were the two numbers matching the title 65. The stamps font match.

This truck was suppose to have been originally sold in Kansas and the guy is the 3rd owner so there is no way to know what really happened.

Have any of you seen a modified vin in this way? Is it possible that the state of Kansas allowed the vin to be modified on a salvage or reconstruct title? In Oklahoma they made me stamp a complete new vin starting with OK.

This could make a great restore project as the engine has been rebuilt and everything is there but the original "step side" (flairside) bed.

 

Why would a state modify an VIN?

They might issue one if the vehicle didn't have one to start with, but modify?

Most likely, imo: stolen.

 

Every 1948 thru today Ford truck, (1949 thru today Ford car) has a VIN

1953/80 trucks, 1961/80 Econolines & 1966/80 Bronco's have 11 digit VIN's. 1981 thru today have 17 digit VIN's.

OP's VIN examples have waay too many x's! Look more like 1965 or earlier Canadian only VIN's = example: 4991014L-123456-A

11 digit VIN example: 1965 F100 assembled in San Jose 1/1965, bought new 3/1965 at Stockton Quincy Ford in Westwood: F10DR639896

If the frame VIN has been ground off, DMV/Polizei issue a new VIN that usually bears no resemblence to the old VIN. This occurs if vehicle is a theft recovery.

The only VIN that matters is the stamped frame VIN(s), have asterisks (*) before/after. DMV/Polizei do not go by VIN's stamped on Warranty Plates, as they can easily be changed.

Typical 1963/79 example: People replaced damaged left doors with used doors. 99.9% of the time, they failed to install the original Warranty Plates on the replaced doors.

 

85e.......,

If stolen, why stamp a 3 over the zero and stamp the other two numbers under the last two originla numbers? Usually if stolen, nothing is done to the frame vin or it is welded over or ground off. To leave the original numbers easily readable is not the work of a thief. Perhaps the work of a person that got stuck with the truck on bad title?

If the previous owners are still alive then one could go ask but they are not alive any more according to the seller. He claims he knew the previous owners.

By the way , I used too many xxxx in the post. Only the last three numbers matter as they are the only three that do not match the tag and title.

Another by the way.... I had to use a state issued vin on a reconstruct and was told to leave the other vins alone, the truck had to have the state's letter of new vin issue with it at all times.

 

In general, a forensic lab can pretty much figure it out but it will cost ya. They do it all the time. The impact pressure from the stamping the numbers distorts the metal pretty deep. Things like acid, magnafluxing or x-ray can often bring it out. BUT, as mentioned, if it is ground down, weld over and ground down again, it would be pretty hard to find the old #s, AND they will still know what has been done. You would still need to do it to all the locations where the #s are stamped. Then you could stamp new ones. I AM NOT suggesting anyone do that.

There will always be criminals at every level of society...

 

Same thing applies to ground off serial numbers on firearms. A bit of acid applied to where invisible number was located: VOILA! The number appears.

 

Yeah, criminals are sometimes not so smart.

You getting some good rain down your way Bill? Coming down pretty good here.

 

I think the thing in your favor is the age of the truck. 40+ year old Ford trucks don't command the same interest as maybe a 2013 King Ranch F250 priced at $65,000.00.

I found after tagging that my title & VIN don't match. My VIN starts F25 but it's F100 all the way. The title matches the door tag.


John

 

John, I can sure understand what your saying but if that old truck has been restored, they will take it just as fast as if it was worth 65,000. Reason being - if they want it, they will take it. Most are not aware of this fact but most stollen vehicles go straight to mexico. How do they get them across the border you ask,,, money. Most ALL vehicles end up in the hands of those who make the laws - "do as we say, not as we do"...

And John, I know a little about the Law. Police and investigators don't really care about the age or quality of a vehicle. If the frame #s do not match the title, they can and in most cases, take that vehicle on the spot and inpound it until an investigation is completed. Even if it does not come up on the inital hot sheet while its setting there in your driveway, if the #s do not match, it goes. Reason they do this - they do not want the vehicle to disappear while they are conducting their investigation... Sorry...

"What part of this do people not understand - you are guilty until proven innocent" HAVE FUN WITH THAT ONE...

 

I'd write the Kansas DMV and usually for a small fee they will do a title search. I'd do that before I bought it. Shouldn't there be another VIN stamped on the frame under the Cab? Maybe the seller could check that out and see if that number matches the warranty and title. Just saying.

 

Thanks for the comments. It is just a parts truck until the papers are fixed.

There is one possibility but it is a reach.... The factory may have made a mistake on the stamp and restamped the vin. Not likely but it does explain the leaving of the old numbers vice stamping over all three of them. They stamped the 3 over a very faint 0 but it is easy to see it was originally a 0.

There is a 66 4x4 south of Stillwater, OK for sale with a "bill of sale" only which is not worth the paper it is printed on in this state. It can be brought up to date for a $200 fee on an "abandoned title" application using a storage lien process which might be worth while. It is selling as a parts truck for $1000 obo on Craigslist.

OBP

 

FoMoCo would not have done any such thing. As Ed (86e) and I pointed out, the truck was probably a theft recovery at some point.

 

John,

I am of the opinion F25 means 3/4 ton frame.... Does the rest of the vin match? Does the truck have 8 lug 16.5 wheels or the heavy duty springs?

I am just curious how the factory could have let one slip through with the wrong vin.

My guess these were these hand stamped back then? If so, then anything could have happened as human error over rules the best laid plans of mice and men.

I know the guys that stamped the early Ford tractors had to be drunk and nearly blind to screw up the serial numbers as bad as they did on the 9,2,and 8Ns. They cleaned up in about 1950.

Explaining that to the police and the DMV may be a bit difficult as they seem to me to be a bit ****.

 

Ford truck frames have the VIN stamped TWICE on the frame... Both on the uppermost surface of the rail...
The most used one is located about 12" in front of the main engine crossmember typically right under the area where the fender apron is thus making it a wee harder to clean it off...
The are all stamped right side up as viwed from RH side of truck
US VINs appear on frame as.... *F26DR123456*
the format you posted initially looks like a Canadian VIN which were on the LH frame rails...

The VIN was also stamped about 11-12" in front of the rear cab mount area on the RH rail in same format as I posted above. I dont know if canadian VIN were stamped a 2nd place or not.
You will need a mechanics mirror to read the 2nd location
as its under the cab.


- cs65

 

OBP & Don, I think there was a John owner before I got it. I bought the truck 12 or years back, had the given title swapped into my name, insured it, and got tags. Put another engine, transmission, front I-beams drove it for a while before I found the not matching number set. I spoke with a NC DMV person, and they started talking putting a NC VIN number on it, and I never got around to doing it.



John