Hey Everyone, this is my first post, regarding my first diesel truck which I purchased (used) about a month ago now. I am really inexperienced with ANY diesel engine, but have a some experience working on and restoring older cars, so I am not complete useless- maybe like 65% useless.

I had a friend owns a smaller bodyshop/garage purchase me a 2005 F350 Lariat FX4 4 door, long bed pickup at a dealer auction, truck had 144,000 miles on it. When all was said and done with the auction fee etc. The truck costed me a total of $13,500. I then had him do a bunch of cosmetic body repairs, making the truck look brand new, he charged me $700, bringing my investment to $14,200.

After getting the truck back from him and starting to drive it, I realized the truck ran very poorly. The thing I initially noticed was that the computer MPG consistently was reading about 8 mpg and the truck seemed to not be shifting properly, almost like it was stuck in a low gear. It would only shift up when you let off the gas a bit, the turbo was showing a very low boost psi even when the RPMs got very high, never reading above maybe 40 psi, I didn't ever see the turbo redline or get close.

I took the vehicle to FORD Service and they told me that the turbo essentially was not functioning and needed to be replaced, as well as the EGR cooler and Oil cooler+ some other smaller related stuff (degas bottle, intake gaskets etc) total cost was $4,147.

After reading these forums, I decided the best thing to do was to take the truck to an aftermarket truck place (different garage specializing in diesel trucks) and have them do an EGR delete and put a re-built turbo in. The total cost of all of this was about $3,100- a little less than ford and the EGR delete seemed like it would save me problems in the future.

They installed a Sinnister EGR delete kit, the kit "part" cost (to me) was billed at $699 (maybe will help identify the level of sinnister kit installed- perhaps the sinnister "basic solution") was I got the truck back today and the truck still runs horribly, perhaps worse than before. It now feels like the engine now has bad fuel injectors, it runs extremely rough, rumbles the whole truck and has absolutely no power especially from a stop. My friend my mechanic friend took the car for a drive and said it felt like there was bad fuel injectors and that because the engine had no power the turbo probably wasn't kicking in on top of that.

At this point I feeling like maybe I should have just had ford do the work initially, because I believe they would have been willing to work with me on the fuel injector price, if in fact the injector problems were not diagnosed and that charged me $4,100 which according to them would bring the car "back to normal".

Basically, the advice I need is more regarding who I should have work on this truck to get it back to a usable condition? I am under the impression that the Ford dealer has a much better capability of diagnosing problems through the computer, but obviously much higher labor rates and will only install factory parts, but does it sound like a safer bet to use FORD from here on now that I have the EGR delete done?

1.Should I have Ford do another diagnostic, then try to bring it back to the shop that did the EGR delete to get new injectors put in?

2. Now that all the originally Ford diagnosed problems have been addressed, and I had the EGR Delete done elsewhere obviously- should I let the dealer address the injector issue? Does anyone have any experiences similar to mine?

I really just want to get this truck fixed so I can drive it, really not looking to save on cost or shop around, just need it done. Any advice would be greatly appreciated, I have much more info and specifics from all THREE parties involved in diagnosing or repairing this truck, but believe it or not this was my attempt to keep this post short.

Thanks to anyone willing to read all this and help me out,

-Ben

 

this is simple.

go to autozone and buy a scanguage II and set it up and plug it into
your obdII port, and tell us what codes you have.

if you are unwilling to do your own code gathering and stuff,
this truck is better off going to a different owner. it will not be
a good fit for you.

when i had blown head gaskets and a failed oil cooler, and egr
cooler, the BEST ford dealership for diesels in this area, the
BEST service writer there......

.... wait for it...

told me that the huge clouds of white smoke (think crop duster
in the midwest) were normal for my 2006 E-350, and were the
result of the smog system "self cleaning". as in regeneration.
'06 6.0's don't do regeneration, fyi.

i guess he must think it works like a self cleaning oven.

you get the codes off the engine, and we can tell you what's up.

and you need to monitor a number of engine parameters to avoid
problems. not your mechanic, not your service writer, not mommy.

you need to do it.

welcome to the forum. there are professionals and gifted amateurs
on here who can provide information second to none available for this
engine.

 

Fulthrotl- I will buy a scangauge tomorrow (or today actually) when its not 1AM. I didn't realize it was that simple to get the error codes. It almost seems like the shop that did the EGR Delete had no way of checking the codes for themselves. When they gave my truck back today they were telling me he thought there was a transmission problem and he wanted to take it to some tranny shop on monday... its not transmission, they seemed like they were in the dark.

Would it be possible that the truck only needed a new turbo and +/- EGR delete and somehow while it was in the shop for a week, ended up with a bad injector? Do you think the symptoms of sticking turbo and a bad injector(s) would be somewhat similar? Truck definetly runs noticeably rougher than before work was done, similar lack of power.

 

X2 on that. This forum needs specific information from some type of monitor to diagnose your problem. Believe me it is money well spent in the long run to stay ahead of any problems you have now or might have in the future.

 

Where abouts in New York are you? Is it anywhere close to Ontario, Canada?

First off, I'm not going to comment on how the dealer you brought your newly acquired truck to, to diagnose the issue with your truck. But reading between the lines so to speak, with the information you've provided in your initial post, I highly suspect the issue you are having is with weak/faulty injector(s). I highly doubt that your turbo is the cause of your seeming lack of power/poor fuel economy issue. If your truck had've been brought to me, I would've scanned it for codes, first and foremost. Depending on the codes retrieved if any, would then determine the next step. Weak/faulty injector(s) can certainly cause your issue, as can low fuel pressure and/or a failing FICM.

How the dealer you brought your truck to, determined your turbo, EGR and oil coolers needed replaced is what escapes me. I will not disagree that those are common issues on these engines. However, it doesn't appear that THOSE are the cause of your issue.

By the way, the normal peak boost on these trucks is 26 psi. Anything much higher than that, you're overboosting which will lift your cylinder heads off the block.

As far as WHO to do the work is concerned. I can only tell you how things would play out if you were to have brought it to my dealership. If you were to have brought it to me, with the expectation that I was going to diagnose it only for the menu priced diagnostic fee, the most I would do is scan it for codes and maybe monitor some live data if needed. If more intrusive disassembly were needed, I would be asking for more labour hours before digging deeper. Having said that, it would not play very well with me, if I knew that you were going to bring it to me for the diagnostic part of the process, only to have it brought to a small independent shop to have the work needed to be done. In a sense, it would be like me "telling" the small shop what to do, only to have them being the one to profit from it. Who you choose to have the work done is entirely up to you.

 

I know I shouldn't be posting this, but service advisors are NOT mechanics. Did the service advisor in question even actually speak to the tech before telling you this? I ask you this is because more often than not, the lines of communication gets twisted from mechanic to advisor to customer. I'm well aware that regeneration occurs only on 2008 and newer F-Series trucks, but that doesn't mean the advisor is as well. Remember, their job is only to RELAY the information. Just the other day, I had a 2008 truck that was written up as "Customer complains of cleaning diesel exhaust fluid message coming up". My all time favourite is "Engine runs ruff", as in RUFF RUFF like noises a dog would make.

 

[quote=m-chan68;12548579]

. If your truck had've been brought to me, I would've scanned it for codes, first and foremost. heads off the block.

quote]



It would be Fixed Period!!!! If you worked on it Mike


I see this all the time here Folks break down the shop dont want to do a proper diagnostic and throw parts at it

Beleive it or not I have seen this kinda stuff Bankrupt people its Sad especialy around X-mas time the rate of Basicaly Theift goes up

The Tech either dont know much or he does and just want to throw parts at it since thats where they really make the money

 

I did in fact speak to the diesel engine mechanic, who, quietly and without really "saying it" in front of the service desk where he was called to speak to me- told me to get am EGR delete, which obviously I needed done elsewhere other than FORD. At that point it really only made sense for me to get the Turbo put in elsewhere also.

Ford, as far as I was told did scan for codes and do a full diagnostic, and what they found resulted in them telling me I need a new turbo and EGR etc. The truck did not seem like it had the loss of power and slowness it does now after getting the work done elsewhere... so, new problem then? probably not a misdiagnoses by ford?

M-Chan, I def don't want to rub anyone the wrong way, I was and am just looking for the fastest solution to getting the car healthy, which to me after talking to FORD mechanic off the record seemed like a EGR delete and new turbo elsewhere was the best bet, now that the turbo and EGR delete is done I am trying to figure out my best course- just a little confused what could be going on with the truck when fixing the diagnosed problems still dont have the truck running normal

 

Okay, where you lost me is how they came to the conclusion your truck needed EGR and oil coolers replaced. You made no mention or complaint of the truck consuming or losing coolant, or burning it out the tailpipe. The turbo being faulty? I can believe that IF and only IF the EGR system and fuel system were functioning properly and it still wasn't building very much boost.

Nonetheless, it's water under the bridge. Where do you stand presently? You claim the truck has even less power than prior to having the EGR delete done. Does the engine feel like it misfires? Or does it just feel like it takes forever to accelerate? By what you describe, it sounds like fuel pressure (or lack thereof), weak and failing FICM or weak/faulty injector(s) seems to be the cause of your issue at present unless there's more information you've failed to provide.

 

Since it got worse after the Last repair job Im thinking maybe an Exhaust to turbo leak

Also a Bad sensor would Cause Turbo issues

 

Initially, the problem I first noticed was that fuel consumption was extremely, as well as the truck seeming like it was stuck in first gear, and generally just not shifting naturally as all of the other vehicles I own do- including a 2007 F150, felt as if it lacked SOME power also, but I never owned this vehicle new, or even in proper working order so its hard for me to really make clear dissertions, which is probably my problem, but theres nothing I can do, I don't know anyone who owns a 6.0 I could take for a ride as a basis of comparison.

I Brought the truck into the ford dealer, explained what I had noticed, and also requested a full diagnostic/ condition check since I had just paid cash for the vehicle at auction and really just didn't have any idea whether my concerns were founded, since I have never really driven or owned a big diesel truck, also wanted to get an oil change etc, just get it looked over because I just got it directly off the auction block.

After the EGR delete and turbo install the truck positively has LESS power and sounds like it is misfiring for sure, although it could have been misfiring slightly before, the engine is idling much much louder. Since ford did not diagnose any injection problems initially, said it wasn't a transmission issue, I chalked the entire poor driveability of the truck to a poor turbo, which ford said would effect shift times, probably I assume because it wasn't helping the engine enough get up to speed.. Its just weird that now it seems like injectors after receiving the new turbo, not sure if both issues existed simultaneously, or ford misdiagnosed initially, or what, I am going to bring it to ford again monday, this whole thing just seems so strange to me, it doesnt make sense and thats why I am looking for the advice.

 

Sorry you're having these problems. The stuff you are talking about are common things that come up when these trucks start having difficulty. BUT that being said...

Because there have been so many people that have had one issue or another with thier vehicle, over a period of time this forum has become a huge source of information!

The mysteries with this engine have all pretty much been answered.
Step 1. Get a Scangauge, or like item. I have an Edge Insight.
Step 2. Go to the head of the forum and dive into the Tech folder. The information there will blow you away and help you understand.
Step 3. Post the codes being thrown and symptoms. (You already have the Symptoms)
Step 4. Getter fixed!

I was new to diesels in May of 2010. AND I had problems. M-Chan. BISMIC, Blade35 and several others have been fantastic.

Things will get better! Get a cup a Joe and start reading!

Eric

 

Im not too sure of your mechanical background, but always refer to the basics. An engine misfire is still a misfire whether its a gas or diesel. A diesel is a different breed sure, however, the same basic theories still apply.

I cant tell you how important the regular maintenance is on a diesel. most people take oil changes and filter changes for granted. You ABSOLUTELY CANNOT do that with a diesel. You would be amazed what problems you can have from not changing your oil and filters on a regular basis.

That being said, It sounds to me like a fuel injection issue. I have the same problem right now, so I took it to one of the best local diesel mechanics, who verified what I had already suspected, #2 injector is not doing its job.

Basically, know what your symptoms are and read, read, read. The info contained in this forum is amazing. Generally speaking most people on here have already experienced the problem your having you just have to look around and read.
I dont know about doing all the deletes and mods. My truck is basically stock. I plan on doing a few upgrades but thats it.
Good Luck with your truck, you will figure it out and really enjoy your new diesel toy!

 

First off you mention low boost and then 40 psi.

You should never get over 30 psi in stock programming (probably even 27 psi). That is perhaps why you got a new turbo - if I am reading your post correctly.

Get the gauges as mentioned earlier and add a fuel pressure gauge to it - you will need a pressure sensor added at the test port (at the base of the secondary fuel filter under the hood) to see the fuel pressure. Lots of threads on it.
Most common gauges - ScangaugeII, Edge Insight, DashBoss (i-pad/i-phone), TorqeApp (Android). None of these can see the fuel pressure since there is no factory sensor. All but the ScanGauge can add an extra sensor input to the gauge system (well I am not 100% sure the TorqueApp can do it, but the others can).

When you get the gauges, we can give you the readings that will do a quick "health assessment". As Mike mentioned - we will want to look at the FICM. Other areas would include the High Pressure Oil System since the late model vehicles are prone to leaks in several components of that system.

In the meantime, get your batteries individually load tested and make sure your alternator is running properly.

It is a good thing you have a new oil cooler and EGR cooler. You now may need to do a coolant flush IMO. Since you probably don't know what coolant is in there and that is what CAN set off the "cooler failure" sequence of events. I would recommend the ELC (Cat 1 or equivalent rating) - mainly because it is less likely to have issues IF you have a head gasket issue. Not saying you do, but right now you do not know what you have. Getting the gauges is important.

If you do not want to go through all of thism then either find a dealership you trust or consider selling it. These are good trucks once the engine weaknesses are addressed.

 

Here is a little advice from a guy who is in your exact same situation. I am a carpenter not a mechanic. My abilities to wrench on these trucks myself is very limited and I also have to rely on the dealership or other shops to take care of my service probs. I can't help you diagnose your current issues, but I can tell you these guys on this board are not full of s@#$t. I just got over a starting issue nightmare that probably cost me three times more than needed ( I will never know). The fact is, guys like us are at the mercy of mechanics . So the first thing you need to do, is find a reputable place to service your truck and develop a relationship with them because you WILL BE BACK. (I am still looking for one.)
These trucks are expensive and a preemptive approach is vital to avoiding a catastrophic meltdown. There are certain things that NEED to be done to these trucks right from the get go. The BEST piece of advice I can give you is, get on this board every day and READ!!!!!These guys are not full of S@#!. A little self education for newbies like you and me probabally goes further than any updated part, or maintenance schedule. Take nothing for granted on these trucks, or it will cost you.