BBC News - Nissan steer-by-wire cars set for showrooms by 2013

Nissan steer-by-wire cars set for showrooms by 2013



Steer-by-wire uses electrical signals and software to control a car's tyres

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Nissan plans to sell cars controlled by steer-by-wire technology within a year.
The innovation works by sending electronic signals from the steering wheel to a computerised unit that then controls the movement of the tyres, rather than using mechanical links.

 

so what is this suppose to do for us?

 

Well, I guess if you're not interested in learning about new developments, then there's no reason to read the article.

Think about it - if one car company adopts it, how long before others adopt it? - How long before we start seeing Fords with this tech?

With the problems other companies have had with similar tech - it kinda bothers me to think what would happen if something went wrong.

I, for one, would rather not have to hope that the computer that controls the steering doesn't have a stroke and decide to kill me...

Maybe I'm just old-fashioned....

 

I may be wrong, but I thought there was a regulation stating the linkage to the steering must be mechanical... I can see electric assist, but by wire is not a good plan to me, in that what happens in the event of electrical failure, like an alternator that allows a battery to die while in operation? I would hope there is some kind of circuit protection, so what happens when that burns out?

 

If you see an F-16 or newer fighter, you're seeing 'fly by wire'. If I have my facts correct, the F-16 (and some others) wouldn't be controllable if the computer wasn't constantly adjusting things.

So, 'by wire' is probably a reasonable concept. Given what I've seen of automotive development, however, I don't want the early versions.

What bothers me more is something that I didn't note in the link ( might be there -- I scanned it pretty fast), but what I've seen elsewhere. The plan is to allow various levels of system takeover to prevent 'driver error'.

It starts with warnings, but then escalates to some steering modification, if the sensors indicate it. Sort of a super collision avoidance and traction control from what I saw.

I've seen stuff to indicate that there actually ARE standards for things like traction control, but the information doesn't seem to be readily available. Before I let my VEHICLE take the wheel, I'd like to know that it's a safe driver.

hj

 

I do admit that aviation has been using fly by wire, and the Stealth would not realistically be flyable if a human did it alone. Thing to remember with avionics is that they have redundant systems, and a heck of a lot more money is put into the components than the automotive market will bear...

 

Also, they've had a lot more time (as in years) to work on these systems and get them working right - even then, there have been incidents in which these systems failed - albeit rarely, it can still happen...

There is a world of difference between an aircraft and an automobile - you generally don't have to worry about an automobile falling out of the sky and there's no reason for an automobile to require that much precision and control...

Edit: Apparently, Nissan is aware of the public's concern:
I never will get over the British spelling for "tyres" LOL...

 

I had seen the clutch aspect, but actually was referring more to this:

 

ok I actually read it, there was a small paragraph in there:

For the time being the addition of the clutch system adds back weight to the vehicles, undermining another potential benefit of the technology - better fuel efficiency.

Ok eliminating the "clutch system" they would regain the MPG benefit. Some newer cars have put the electric power steering motor on the rack, which would be needed without a mechanical steering column. The weight savings of a steering column is what 7 or 8 lbs or am I missing something here?

 

Dunno... Even the clutch system wouldn't weigh that much, relatively speaking. I don't know how their figuring fuel efficiency into this...

 

We've had throttle by wire in cars for years. It's not a huge jump to go steer by wire. The biggest hurdle will be the schmucks that will claim the system steered their car into the other car/building/pedestrian/etc, instead of taking the blame for they're poor driving habits. Or who knows, maybe there really will be the occasional electronic steering software 'hiccup' that may cause the vehicle to turn unwanted?...The memory in all those little black boxes will need to be recording a lot of data for crash aftermath investigations.

I'm still waiting for the day when we just hop into a pod and it steers itself on a rail to our destinations. No more merging road rage, exhaust fumes, gas fillups, etc. lol.

 

Throttle control is different in that if you lose power, the engine will shut down anyway. What happens with the steering? You also lose it and the wheels remain as they were. Tractors have been hydraulic steered for years, no direct linkage. Can be a real issue if the motor shuts down for whatever reason. I have experienced that myself. The scary thing there is the brakes are also controlled by the hydraulic system, which also make them inoperative as well. Not fun.

 

Not just military, but inherently stable civilian jets that carry passengers are now fly-by-wire. Airbus does not allow the pilot do do things that the computer decides are too far out of "normal". Boeing allows complete pilot authority, but there is still no direct mechanical linkage. The last completely mechanical large airliner was the DC-8!

The difference I see here is maintenance. You are not required by law to have your car serviced only by a licensed mechanic and at exact intervals, using only approved parts. It is not unlawful for you to drive it if a recall has not been done. Automotive systems have to be more robust for this reason alone.

 

all of this elerctronic drive by stuff is for the birds . even some of the heavy trucks i have to drive have it and when it breaks it leaves your a$$ stranded most of the time waiting for help . i don't think the wifes van has it a chitty of 08 year , but i don't care as i honestly don't like to drive it or use it . drive by wire even with a backup is asking for an accident to eventually happen and it will . i like to know there are mechanical linkages , cables etc. transferring my input to control the vehicle . i don't even care for the electronic power steering . progress isn't progress anymore in my eyes . all this science fiction mumbo jumbo making our lives better is making it more expensive , and complicating it to the extreme . i also see law enforcement or other agencies figuring out how to shut you down if they so desire by killing the electronics in your car . also has anyone thought about how much more the price of a new vehicle is going to keep climbing with all this garbage on it ??? the car companies need to get back to basics and build simpler , easily repairable vehicles for us not something we need to take too the nearest nasa repair station to just diagnose it's issues , nonetheless repair them .

 

Makes me nervous, the "by wire" thingies.

Afterall, if computers control the system and there is no backup system, you might have similar system crashes as many computers do. Except when your computer crashes only Debbie doesn't do Dallas. In a car, you might lose control.

I have a 2004 Lincoln with throttle by wire and the ubiquitous computer controlled transmission. I do NOT like the way it responds to throttle changes and tranmission shifts.

As far as throttle goes, 99% of the time, it is OK but if there is a sudden acceleration, ie stomping the gas to pass on the freeway, the computer will often think about it for what feels like forever. I have literally almost gotten into more than one accident due to the car being in "coast" mode while it thinks about gunning the gas. Now I try to avoid those moviesque speedy lane changes that I used to love. Now they are truly a huge gamble. In my opinion throttle by wire sucks.

The computer controlled tranny is in almost all modern cars so I guess either mine is cranky or that is just the way they are. Mine often will slam shift when you change your mind in accelerating or decelerating. The tranny seems to think about what gear it wants while it "coasts" and then slam into gear. A few times I actually thought someone behind me had rearended me. I can easily fool the computer into making the wrong shift by playing with that throttle by wire thingie. Ford has a TSB where they put in an additive to soften the shift and they do some reprogramming, but the problem is still there but less so. Even my previous 96 chebbie was notorious for requiring computer reflashes due to what they called chuggle from the tranny.

I have read that some new chebbies use electric power assist, which I assume still has a direct connection to the steering wheel. But, there are plenty of consumer gripes about having to replace the electric motor far too soon at a huge cost, well over $1,000. If steer by wire uses a similar motor type control and disconnects the linkage, I am sure I won't like that either.

Sure I am a troglodyte, but being in engineering since the early 70s, I can assure you, electronic systems have plenty of gremlins, that when they pop up, you may lose all control of that system. Don't think I like that idea in steering control.

The key decision factor for me would be if there is a demonstrated proof of better MTBF(an engineering term, see I haven't forgotten) than the mechanical system it replaces.

One other problem with steer by wire in my guess is that it will disconnect any feedback to the driver from the tires. Ever drive a car with hard core power steering where you had no idea what the wheels were doing? I bet steer by wire will be worse, unless engineers spend the money to include some sort of feedback.

Like the saying goes, do you really want a car computer operated by Microsoft Windows?

We will. Till then let me get my hands back of the steering paddle board.

Jim Henderson

PS to prove I am not totally a Luddite, I do like the fact that computer controls have eliminated much of the mechanical "tune up" work I used to have to do with my car. Cars are much more reliable now, but if the computer breaks, you will be wishing for a paddle.