I have a 1996 F250 4WD 4-door shortbed. It is an automatic and has the 460 motor. It has approximately 109k miles and is a third vehicle that gets driven a few times a month. It's main purpose is to tow my 28 foot travel trailer that weighs approximately 6000 lbs loaded.

I purchased the truck late last year and towed the trailer with it a few times this year. I have been very dissatisfied with two items when towing:

• Power - I purchased the truck hoping to have a ton more power when going over passes while towing. I previously towed the trailer with my 04 Expedition. With this truck, I do not have any more power than my Expedition. I am thinking that something is not right. For example, when going up over the Mt. Hood pass, I have it floored and only go 40 MPH with the RPM's at about 3500.
• MPG - Don't get me wrong, I was not expecting to get 15 MPG with this rig. I was expecting to get about the same MPG that I got with the Expedition when towing, but this is not the case. My last pull I got right at 6 MPG. I drive like an old man, yet the MPG is more than terrible. I was thinking I would get closer to 9 or so towing 6000 lbs.

I am hoping some readers may have some advice on what may be the problem (or confirm that this is life with this truck). I bought the truck for more power and to not put my Expedition through towing this much weight.

Any thoughts/ideas/suggestions anyone has would be greatly appreciated!!

 

You could try doing a cylinder compression test to check the general condition of the engine. It sounds to me like it should have more power than you describe.

 

Well something is definately wrong... a 460 should tow 6000lbs with ease and get better mpg than that. My 351w has towed 9500lbs and did better than you would probably think and pulled 9 mpg. A compression test would be good

 

That is what I am thinking. My buddy has the same motor in his Class C motorhome and he can cruise over the same stretch of road at 70 with power to spare.

 

You don't have much more power when towing, because you don't have much more power.

That 460 has 245HP, the 4.6 Expedition had 235HP, the 5.4 Expedition had 260HP. If you had a 5.4 Expedition, you've actually downgraded in power.

While some will argue the 460 has more torque, that only means it'll take off a bit better from a stop, and be able to hold gears a bit better on hills before downshifting. But an outright pedal-to-the-floor-gotta-make-it-up-this-hill type situation, the engine with more horsepower will win.

6MPG is quite a bit on the low side, even for towing 6000 pounds. I'd start by doing a full tune up - cap, rotor, wire, plugs, fuel filter, check timing. I'd also check for any codes (just because the light isn't on doesn't mean you don't have codes)

 

This is just plain not true. Torque is what gets you up a hill, not horsepower.

OP, there is something wrong with your truck. Check the base timing, compression, and check for codes.

 

You are just plain wrong. Torque at the engine is meaningless when it comes to absolute power up a hill.

Torque at the wheels is what matters. Through a transmission that actually has more than 1 forward gear, the engine that has more horsepower will almost always be able to put more torque to the ground at a given road speed.

If you don't believe me, go look up the 6.2 vs 6.7PSD Tow Tests a few members of this forum did. Starting from a dead stop up a 15% grade towing 15,000 ponds, the 6.2L V8 was within 2 MPH of the 6.7 truck by the time both crested the hill.

 

Ya horsepower wont get you up a hill first, torque is what will, and when towing horsepower doesnt fit in the equation. Towing is all about torque, especially if your talking about going up a hill thats all torque to the wheels

 

Once again, when you have a transmission with multiple torque-multiplying ratios, torque at the engine hardly matters once the gas pedal is to the floor.

 

Yeah... I think that pretty much speaks for itself.

I think you win the most obvious statement of the year award with that one.

Ok, let's test this one out. I will get behind the wheel of a tractor rated to tow 80,000 lbs. It will have a 450 hp engine. You can hook the same 80,000 lbs to the back of a BMW M5 that makes over 500 horsepower and we will see which one of us is able to even make it more than 25 feet. You even have a significant horsepower advantage so this wouldn't even be close, right?

Or... does torque maybe make a little more of a difference than you think?

 

The 460 is a good engine but it's not going to go screaming up a mountain towing a trailer. Your experience sounds about like par for the course but just to be sure, check the codes and do the basic HP mods that are talked about in so many threads on here. This subject has been beat to death, resurrected, beat to death again, and has come back as a zombie and ate some unfortunate shlub's brain.

 

If the BMW had a transmission setup for towing, then yes it'd be able to out-pull that tractor. All day, everyday. Torque at the engine is meaningless because you have a transmission that can multiply the torque for you.

----Example----
460 - 245HP @ 4000 RPM (321 lb-ft) (400 lb-ft @ 2200 RPM)
5.4 2vPI - 260HP @ 4500 RPM (303 lb-ft) (345 lb-ft @ 2300 RPM)

Assume 460 has 4.10 gears, and Expedition's are 3.73:1. 460 has an E4OD, Expedition 4R70W. Assume both vehicles have 29" tires.

4R70W Ratios:
2.84:1
1.55:1
1:1
.70:1
E4OD Ratios:
1st = 2.71
2nd = 1.538
3rd = 1
4th = .712
----------------------
Let's check out what happens with a 35 MPH road speed, WOT, up a hill. Given that the Expedition will shift at about ~4900-5000 RPM, and the 460 will shift at ~4200RPM. With those size tires, the expedition could be in 1st at 35 MPH, while the 460 will need to be in 2nd. The 460 will be at its torque peak, while the 5.4 will be at its horsepower peak.

7.5: 400 lb-ft x 1.538 x 4.10 = 2522 lb-ft at the wheels
5.4: 303 lb-ft x 2.840 x 3.73 = 3209 lb-ft at the wheels

Not even a competition, the Expedition will be able to blow the 460 away at 35MPH.
-----
How about 55 MPH? 460 at its horsepower peak, 5.4 just after it's torque peak.

7.5: 321 lb-ft x 1.538 x 4.10 = 2024 lb-ft at the wheels
5.4: 345 lb-ft x 1.550 x 3.73 = 1994 lb-ft at the wheels

30 lb-ft advantage to the 460, but hardly enough to make a noticeable difference since it's at the wheels.
-----
What about 65 MPH? The 460 truck will need to be in 3rd, while the Expedition can run 2nd at 65 MPH. 460 will be just off torque peak, 5.4 will be at power peak

7.4: 400 lb-ft x 1.00 x 4.10 = 1640 lb-ft at the wheels
5.4: 303 lb-ft x 1.55 x 3.73 = 1751 lb-ft at the wheels

111 lb-ft advantage to the 5.4, not that big of a difference at the wheels, but you'll slowly pull away from the 460 truck.
------
What about from a dead stop? Both engines in 1st @ torque peak.

7.4: 400 lb-ft x 2.71 x 4.10 = 4444 lb-ft at the wheels
5.4: 345 lb-ft x 2.84 x 3.73 = 3654 lb-ft at the wheels.
------
Like I said earlier, from a dead stop is the only place where a 460 has a clear-cut advantage. It'd also have a similar advantage from 0-30 MPH. Once you're moving, the 5.4 will outperform, or at least match the 460 at nearly any road speed.

 

You said it perfectly right there. A BMW and corvette with 500 plus hp wont be able to tow a 10000lb trailer up a hill. Towing is all torque

 

What a lot of you guys are forgetting is that torque is how fast you make hp. The 460 has a flatter curve and a higher average hp and torque. It will win every time. The 5.4 doesn't make power till 3000 rpms and the 460 will be long gone before it even catches up. The 5.4 might have a higher top speed but will not win a race.

To the op it sounds like your 460 isn't running to its full potential.

One more comparison. My truck is a 97 f-250 460 e40d 4.10 gears and weighed in at 6200 when i did this. It has headers exhaust and a cai. My buddys truck a 01 chevy ec sb with a 6.0 tuner and a performance muffler. The 6.0 is rated at 300 hp to my 240. We are at nearly identical weight. At the drag strip i beat him back to back i ran 16.5 at 80mph and he ran 16.7 at 85mph. So this shows horse will give you a much higher trap speed but guess you got there first and won the race, the 400 lb ft. of torque 460 did.

 

I hate to disappoint you but I did not bother to read your long drawn out post after I got this far.

It's perfectly clear that you have no idea what you're talking about and I'm not going to argue with you any longer.