See what happens when the paint degrades on the inside of a diesel fuel tank.

Since 2002 I have never once put a fuel additive in the tank.

After my 8-15-12 uphill power loss driving back from Idaho to Sacramento, after I was towed back to Sacramento I did put some "Kleen" performance product in the tank in a fit of magical thinking to see if I could stop the white smoking and missing which I have been advised is likely one or more cracked injector nozzles or failed o-rings resulting from iinjector overheating caused by fuel starvation. I am sure that the 10 minutes of idling I did with that Kleen stuff in the tank did not make the paint come off and that the paint in the fuel caused the fuel starvation with resulting uphil power loss - and who knows what else...

Dear Ford:

I would rather have my tank rust out than ruin my injectors from your failing inside the tank paint job.

Sincerely,
Tim Hodgson

 

Yeah you have to have 25 posts to add attachments. Definitely clogged mixing chambers which likely will be the only issue currently.

Hopefully rather than replace you just performed the Hutch mod.

Welcome to guzzle's In-tank Hutch Mod Web Page

 

Paint? That tank and those flakes looked like oxidized aluminum, but it's hard to be accurate with pictures. My tank is plastic with a threaded neck, so I can't identify what's going on here. Weird.

 

Yeah I don't know what tanks the vans have, I know chassis cabs had steel tanks with a liner that is known to delaminate, the 250 and 350 pickups had the plastic tanks.

 

Tim

You have a 2002 E Series van, right? Aparently vans and cab & chasis have metal/painted tanks.
If the tank is made of galvanizad metal (to prevent rust), it is painted (coated with something) to prohibit the reaction of diesel fuel to the zinc in galvanization.

BTW, i am not convinced this will happen (from your eariler post) "cracked injector nozzles resulting from fuel starvation"

I am also pleased you started your own post.

 

Thanks guys for your input. Apparently, my vehicle wasn't singled out, it is a known problem which is happening with all Ford steel diesel fuel tanks:

Corrosion in Ford diesel fuel tanks (p.3)

There are some pretty grumpy fleet managers out there.

 

Yes, I am well into doing the Hutch Mod. I also want to cut off the quick connect fittings.

Guzzle replaces them with 10 feet of rubber fuel line to the pre-pump filter. I am also doing a Racor screen clear jar-type pre-pump filter (unless you guys suggest a different filter). But why can't I just use the regular type of compression fittings to connect the fuel sender unit to the steel lines (rather than substituting rubber fuel line)?

I am considering either a Racor PS120-1 or PS120-2 depending on what adapter is best going from what I believe is a 5/16" fuel line to the filter. I thought I would just use a compression type threaded plug over the existing metal line on either side of the filter. Any suggestions?

I can't find any discussion of these two specfic topics, so any help would be greatly appreciated.

 

Expense and ease would be the main reason imo. The other would be the routing of the lines to the tank that is intended to be dropped.

 

Hey -
Do you have any pictures of your pre-pump filter ??

Also what did you do with the tank ?? Strip it and re-coat ?
Use a plastic one ?

 

FTE is my favorite forum. However, since this topic is so rarely discussed anywhere, I am posting this link:

Ford E350 Diesel Tank Delamination - Pics - Diesel Forum - TheDieselStop.com

The red rust which happens to the inside of the tank steel after the grey/silver paint delaminates is also discussed. My filter was clogged with grey/silver fine particles (e.g. what happens after the paint flakes/goo are macerated by the oem fuel pump and then sent to the oem filter).

One guy had his oem Ford tank boiled out to remove the delaminating/peeling paint goo and recoated for $1000 but has decided just to use this Spectra Premium tank instead. He just doesn't trust that the new coating in the old tank won't delaminate and ruin the injectors like the oem Ford painted-on-the-inside-tanks do.

Spectra Premium F41B Fuel Tank for Ford : Amazon.com : Automotive

The Spectra tank is not painted on the inside but is coated inside and out with Ni-Terne. "Ni-terne is cold rolled, flashed with nickel then hot dipped with 90% lead 10% tin give or take a couple %pts. NO Zinc." It has a three year warranty and is appropriate for use "with gasoline containing up to 20% ethanol (E20) and diesel containing up to 5% biodiesel (B5))"

If your van is converted to 4x4, you will have to shorten the front of the tank for it to clear the transfer case.

One guy PMd me and said: "Just order the Spectra it will fit. Save yourself from anymore hassles. Yeah Ford coated it to keep the cheap metal from rusting then they changed the fuel some and it ate it up. Plus any of those additives they sell for diesels will eat it up quick. Get the Spectra, it has a lead coating from what I remember when I spoke to engineers when I called them, no paint in them. A shop near me cut the end off and brazed on a flat stainless piece to resolve the transfer case fit problem and charged me $75.00. I also took him my old tank to compare dimensions so to get it right."

I dropped my tank and used a less viscous paint remover and tried to get all the remaining paint flakes and goo out by repeatedly spraying paint remover inside then flushing the tank with water. But I don't trust that I removed all of the paint. Even during my last flush, flakes were rising to the top. Because I don't think that my Racor PS-120 diesel pre-pump filter will catch all the flakes and because any flakes which get by the oem filter will just ruin my new injectors, I am not driving my van until I replace the tank.

Here is a link to my pre-filter:

https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/1...-strainer.html

I may go with the Spectra and have it cut to fit my transfer case.

But I know a really good welder who is certified in stainless and who doesn't charge me full rate. So, I am exploring having an Alloy 316 stainless steel tank fabricated and will post if I do.

Again, if you have a oem Ford steel tank (used in the diesel E-series and in the F450 and F550) drop the tank and have a peek, before you lose your injectors like I did.

BTW, one of the Spectra tank reviewer's comments on Amazon describes to a "T," the symptoms your engine will have as it experiences fuel starvation prior to the ruining of its injectors. The problem with these tanks is not limited to diesels. Apparently, even the gasoline vans using these Ford oem painted steel tanks halso experience the same delamination problems and symptoms.

This helpful TSB was recently posted by Brother Les:

7.3 Bulletins Page
Updated: 6-4-08

Lack of Power, Trucks with Steel Tanks:
Some trucks may have a lack of power due to low fuel pressure from a plugged fuel filter or in-tank pickup tube, or restricted fuel lines. This could be caused by the steel tank lining becoming de-laminated/flaking off. If this occurs, the tank will need to be replaced, along with the plugged components. Be aware that using biodiesel with more than 5% concentration (B5) may cause this to happen. The replacement tanks do have a more resistant coating to help prevent this occurance, however Ford still recommends using no higher than B5 biodiesel. Broadcast Message 6865, 7103.

Edit:

UJointOffRoad is also now making an aluminum fuel tank which accommodates the 4x4 transfer case:

"Our new aluminum fuel tank replaces the stock midship tank and makes room for the new t-case. The capacity is 39 gallons and the tank is powdercoated black with 2 mounting straps. New fuel & vent fill hose as well as the proper vents front & rear.

Production starts 2-1-13, so let us know if you'd like to get in on the 1st run! Price is $1199 plus freight."



http://www.ujointoffroad.com/

 

I would not try to recoat a peeling tank. I'd fab in a plastic tank or non-coated steel. There are aftermarket plastic Ford pickup tanks that fit under the truck in the spare tire area.

Coating a galv. tank with paint inside, for a diesel truck, has to be one of Ford's dumber ideas.

 

Hey Tim,

My up pipes just showed up.
now to see if they fit in our vans! what sucks is I have to fit them first then take it apart before I can rattle can ceramic coat them. nothing like doing all that and having to send them back and they don't fit. (keep you posted on the install)
anyway I Just had a random thought on our tank issue.

I have a espar diesel heater installed, but not hooked up yet (which sucks cause I just camped out in 8 deg temps last night) but I want to get a separate tank for the heater and big enough for a possible transfer tank when my main tank is low.
why not get an excursion diesel tank as out main tank. we might have to fab something up to hang it, but that would give us a bigger tank (38 gal I think) which would be nice upgrade from my 27 short stock METAL one.
then I can use my stock one for my heater/tansfer once I clean it up.

anyway just thoughts.

the bad is I will loose my rear storage box, but I think it might be worth it

 

This looks like an old thread, but Tim just sent me this link tonight to read.. and weep... with you, fellow metal tank owners.

I too have a steel tank, but have held onto a completely unproven hopeful theory that Ford did something different starting in the summer of 2001 for Job 1 2002 as far as how the fuel tanks were produced.

From the tons of chassis cab fuel tanks I saw returned for warranty at my local dealer, all were between years model years 2002 to about 2005. My tanks was built in 1999. I'm now kind of curious, for those who have experience bonafide delamination, what year was your van or truck?

I've dropped my 550 tank. Not because I noticed any trash on the filter, I did it because I needed to move the tank out of the way to install some inner frame bracing for a hitch. While I was at it, I removed the sender unit to have a look.

What I found was not delamination... it was just a small pile of rusty debris under the pick up umbrella.

Because the pile of debris hardened into a porous mass, sticking to itself in a cluster, it became trapped under the umbrella. Because it was trapped, it stayed stuck to in the same position on the bottom of the steel tank, which it began to corrode.

I removed the mass, cleaned the tank, half disassembled and then reassembled a grinder inside the tank, and with wire brush cups and fine flap wheels finessed the slight corrosion away to bare steel. Must have caught it early. I then treated it with phosphoric acid, let that sit for 24 hours to convert the invisible microscopic corrosion, and then neutralized/rinsed the acid residue away. To prevent flash rust, I immediately treated with Rust Lick 88, an industrial interim process protective fluid.

Then, I put very bright 1000 watt halogen quarts lights underneath the tank, at night, and with sharp dental probes poked at the treated circle from up top, just to see if I could find weak points or see pinpoints of light appear upon probing. I didn't. And neither the acid (Rust Mort by SEM) nor the neutralization rinse leaked or seeped. Solid enough.

Then, I set about looking for how to treat the tank. Found a tank renew company that coats the insides for $600.00. They had done a few for a local Ford dealer when Ford wouldn't pay warranty on a new tank. I asked the renew company how they did it the process.

They said they drill holes all over the tank, spray their snot (whatever proprietary substance it is) in through all the holes they drilled, rotate the tank all over to distribute their snot, then weld the holes back up. Between them swiss cheesing the tank, and their weld puddles contaminated with their snot, that method didn't appeal to me, so I passed.

I researched two part epoxies that were oil/fuel/gas/bio/petro-chemical resistant, bought a few, and set up test coupons in gallon sized petri dishes of diesel. I drove a gasoline truck that summer, because I let the test coupons soak for 2 to 3 months. I guess I just like to make sure?

They all performed more or less equally, but I liked the durable feeling finish of the oil, diesel, and gas rated Marine Tex... the original slow cure formula the best, readily available at West Marine.

By the way, I tried to simulate heat cycling tests as well, heating and cooling the epoxy coated metal test coupons to see how the hardened epoxy responded. I couldn't control temperatures accurately enough using the methods that I had available at the time to come to a conclusion I would deem reliable enough to state, but I mention this part of my test because dissimilar thermal expansion rates appear to me to be a potential contributing factor on these steel fuel tanks when it comes to coatings.

The differential in expansion contraction rates between the coating material and the steel can possibly contribute to "popping" a coating... first into blisters, then into bits and pieces.

I mixed and applied Marine Tex on the bottom surface of the tank under where the umbrella sits, and in a few other places were corrosion had started (that also got hit with my other pre treatments). I made islands only were warranted, rather than a continuous film, to minimize any risk of the "popping" or cracking of the coating. The main goal was filling and covering non visible pores, and having a non corrosive coating where debris can collect under the umbrella.

(I didn't do any Hutch or Harpoon mods, but was aware of them as I did read many of those original threads back in 2002/3 when hutchinaugusta and the late TexasTowncar were first experimenting with what is now commercialized as "the regulated return" The factory design still seemed best suited to my meager needs).

So, that's what I found in my steel tank, built in 1999. I wonder if the trouble with the delamination had a higher rate of incidence within a limited range of model years?

 

For those of you who come across this thread in the future, two things:

First, F_250 (Pete) appears to be the first FTE member to actually perform a forensic disassembly of the stock fuel pump. As you can see from his excellent pictures, the pump itself has an inlet screen, which no doubt, if you have a delaminating tank, is likely also clogged. So replacing the fuel pump is likely also necessary:

Stock Fuel Pump Teardown - Questions Answered and PICS

https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/1...l#post14080504

Second, Y2KW57 may be on to something:

"[D]issimilar thermal expansion rates appear to me to be a potential contributing factor on these steel fuel tanks when it comes to coatings. The differential in expansion contraction rates between the coating material and the steel can possibly contribute to "popping" a coating... first into blisters, then into bits and pieces."

My van was used in ambient temps of over 100F in the Sacramento Valley Summers, to -17F at 7800 feet in the Winter mornings where it is idled to run the generator on the second alternator position to power the microwave, etc. So, quite possibly, repeated Summer/Winter cycles of temperature extremes contributed to the delamination of the steel fuel tank.

 

My 99 E350 with 220K has had same problem for last 5 years or so. Just found out last week why; "delamination of tank" says Ford Mechanic. Now I see it's not a one-off. What a sham! Have spent over $2500 chasing this, now am going to file a comlpaint with NHSTA andf see if I can join a class action suit somewhere.