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  #46  
Old 06-20-2014, 07:29 PM
GMUGNIER GMUGNIER is offline
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Just found this -

Here is the thread on axle and trans rations referenced above: What happens when an unstoppable force meets an immovable object ...? - TheDieselGarage.com

The ability of a given power plant to start a load is dependant on the transmission gearing, rear axle ratio and tire size (rolling diameter) and nothing more. When you take the gear ratio of the transmission in 1st and multiply it by the rear gear ratio you get the amount of Tq multiplication to the rear wheels (actually to the axle shafts because tire size matters ).

For the 6.4L w/TS => 1st = 3.114:1, with a towing gear of 4.10:1 the total multiplication works out to 3.114 x 4.10 = 12.767:1

For the 6.7L => 1st = 3.97:1, with the 3.31 stock gearing the total multiplication works out to 3.97 x 3.31 = 13.14:1

This means that a truck with a 6.7L and auto trans with the STOCK rear gear of 3.31:1 has more "load starting" capability than a 6.4L TS with a 4.10 rear gear and equal Tq and HP


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- So maybe rear end is not as important? - This is why this forum is great - all the input here - really has me thinking, which is exactly why I asked my question. Thanks guys.
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  #47  
Old 06-20-2014, 08:21 PM
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Originally Posted by GMUGNIER View Post
Well If that is the case the F350 SRW's must be having some major issues, as the engine/tranny programming is the same as my F250 and they are rated for the weight. - Also I just checked the ratio on my window sticker and I have the electronic locking rear end - which is the 3.55 - So I was wrong on the ratio. - This is why I am concerned - don't want to drop major bucks on the dolly if the truck cant handle the weight.
I don't think very many owners of SRW trucks use their trucks like you are planning. The F250/350 programming has quite a few derating strategies in place to deal with heat. We have quite a few grades here in Arizona where it's pretty easy to hit those limits even with a fairly light 10klb trailer....I am sure the Rockies are even more demanding.

I wish I could say more on the subject but I will have to wait a while longer. I can say that it's no secret that cooling and altitude are the two major limiting factors with the 2011-2014 pickup models at this time.

If you can wait until 2015, the F450 looks to be quite a nice tow vehicle and right up your alley.

Happy Towing!
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  #48  
Old 06-20-2014, 08:29 PM
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We're really spoiled.

As a younger man I towed an 18' stock trailer loaded with up to 6 2000 lb bulls all over the Laramie valley (7000 up to almost 9000 feet elevation) with a F250, manual 5 speed and 300 I-6.

Now I'll tell you, the 4:10 axle ratio was a really important feature in that pickup. We didn't go any place very fast but we always got there.

I'll also remind folks that the 300 I-6 was offered in up to F600's in the 80's.

Gearing is everything in a rig like that. If you have the gears, you can do it.
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  #49  
Old 06-20-2014, 08:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by clux View Post
We're really spoiled.

As a younger man I towed an 18' stock trailer loaded with up to 6 2000 lb bulls all over the Laramie valley (7000 up to almost 9000 feet elevation) with a F250, manual 5 speed and 300 I-6.

Now I'll tell you, the 4:10 axle ratio was a really important feature in that pickup.

We didn't go any place very fast but we always got there.

I'll also remind folks that the 300 I-6 was offered in up to F600's in the 80's.

Gearing is everything in a rig like that.
Clux - you are right in that regard - I had a I6 and loved that engine. I guess Ford decided that if they kept making them they would not sell as many trucks. That engine lasted forever.
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  #50  
Old 06-20-2014, 08:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shake-N-Bake View Post
I don't think very many owners of SRW trucks use their trucks like you are planning. The F250/350 programming has quite a few derating strategies in place to deal with heat. We have quite a few grades here in Arizona where it's pretty easy to hit those limits even with a fairly light 10klb trailer....I am sure the Rockies are even more demanding.

I wish I could say more on the subject but I will have to wait a while longer. I can say that it's no secret that cooling and altitude are the two major limiting factors with the 2011-2014 pickup models at this time.

If you can wait until 2015, the F450 looks to be quite a nice tow vehicle and right up your alley.

Happy Towing!
Hey Shake - I appreciate that info - but if I step up I am gonna pass on the MD and go straight to the Class 8.
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  #51  
Old 06-20-2014, 10:01 PM
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This thread came up at a really good time for me. After spending a couple of weeks out at the lake in or 30' fifth wheel single slide trailer the wife and I decided it was getting really tight for the six of us and when we got back home we should go and look at some bigger trailers. Well, we found a bigger trailer. She has decided on this Recon tripple slide. Here is the specs on it. I total like the trailer but I afraid it is a bit big for my 250?


2010 Jayco Recon ZX 40D

159of 275
2010 Toy Hauler RV's
Overall
Performance
Quality & Reliability
Interior
Overall Value

  • MSRP: $67,071.00
  • Financing:
  • Type: Toy Hauler
  • Insurance:



2010 Jayco Recon ZX 40D Specifications

Wheels & Tires:
Wheels Composition Steel
Number Of Axles 3
Rear Tire (Full Spec) 16 Inch Wheel
Spare Tire Location Exterior Mounted
Brakes:
Front Brake Type Not Applicable
Rear Brake Type Electric Drum
Technical Specifications:
Length (ft/m) 43.42 / 13.2
Width (in/mm) 102 / 2590.8
Height (in/mm) 159 / 4038.6
Interior Height (in/mm) 101 / 2565.4
Length (ft/ft) 43
Length (ft/in) 5
Dry Weight (lbs/kg) 13705 / 6216.6
Payload Capacity (lbs/kgs) 4295 / 1948.2
GVWR (lbs/kgs) 18000 / 8164.8
Hitch Weight (lbs/kgs) 3585 / 1626.2
Capacities Standard
Number Of Fresh Water Holding Tanks 1
Total Fresh Water Tank Capacity (gal/l) 148 / 560.2
Number Of Gray Water Holding Tanks 1
Total Gray Water Tank Capacity (gal/l) 63 / 238.5
Number Of Black Water Holding Tanks 1
Total Black Water Tank Capacity (gal/l) 64 / 242.3
Propane Tank (s) Standard
Number Of Propane Tanks 2
Total Propane Tank Capacity (gal/lbs) 14.2 / 60
Exterior:
Body Material Aluminum
Sidewall Construction Fiberglass
Number of Doors 2
Sliding Glass Door No
Number of Slideouts 3
Power Retractable Slideout Yes
Number of Awnings 1
Awning Length (ft/m) 16 / 4.9
Power Retractable Awning Yes
Screened Room No
Leveling Jack Type Front Power / Rear Manual
Sky Light Standard
Roof Vents Standard
Exterior Ladder Standard
Exterior Shower Standard
Pass-Thru Storage Standard
Exterior Wheel Skirts Standard
Instrumentation:
Voltage Meter Standard
Fresh Water Holding Tank Gauge Standard
Gray Water Holding Tank Gauge Standard
Black Water Holding Tank Gauge Standard
Trailer Level Gauge Standard
Water Pump Power Display Standard
Propane Tank Gauge Standard
Identification:
Generic Type (Primary) Toy Hauler
Manufacturer Country USA
Introduction Year 2010
Regional Availability All Regions
Display Name Recon ZX 40D
Heater & Cooler:
Air Conditioning Type Automatic
Heater Type Automatic
Water Heater Tank Capacity (g/l) 12 / 45.4
Water Heater Pump Power Mode Electrical / Propane
Water Heater Tank Bypass Yes
Freeze Proof Insulation Standard
Cargo:
Cargo Area Length (in/mm) 144 / 3657.6
Cargo Area Width (in/mm) 98 / 2489.2
Cargo Area Height (in/mm) 101 / 2565.4
Cargo Area Flooring Type Rubber
Cargo Area Rear Door Style Ramp Door
Cargo Area Tool Chest / Storage Area Standard
Cargo Area Storage Cabinets Standard
Cargo Area Tiedown / Tracks Standard
Cargo Area Auxiliary Gas Tank Capacity (gal/lbs) 30 / 113.6
Diamond Plated Cargo Area Finish Standard
Other:
Smoke Detector Standard
Carbon Monoxide Detector Standard
Propane Alarm Standard
Emergency Exit (s) Standard
Electrical:
Battery Power Converter Yes
Battery Converter Amps 80
Air Conditioning Prewiring Yes
Cable Prewiring Yes
Phone Prewiring No
Heat Prewiring Yes
TV Antenna Prewiring Yes
Satellite Prewiring Yes
Washer / Dryer Prewiring Yes
Exterior Plugs Standard
Ground Fault Plugs Standard
Lights:
Hitch Lights Standard
Exterior Flood Lights Standard
Warranty:
Structure Warranty (Months) 24
Basic Warranty (Months) 24
Paint & Finish:
Metallic No
Wallpaper Yes
Interior Wood Finish Yes
Curtains / Shades Standard
Audio & Communication:
Brand Name Sony
Satellite No
Number Of Radios 1
Speaker Location (s) Interior / Exterior
Number Of Discs 1
DVD Player Standard
Number Of Televisions 1
Retractable Roof Antenna Standard
Interior:
Kitchen / Living Area Flooring Type Carpet / Vinyl
Kitchen Table Configuration U-shaped Dinette
Kitchen Location Center
Living Area Location Center
Number Of Oven Burners 3
Oven Depth (in/mm) 21 / 533.4
Overhead Fan Yes
Layout Oven / Stove
Microwave Oven Standard
Refrigerator Size Mid-Size
Refrigerator Power Mode Electric / Propane
Sink Cover / Cutting Boards Standard
Number Of Sofas 1
Sofa Material Cloth
Max Sleeping Count 12
Number Of Bunk Beds 0
Number Of Double Beds 0
Number Of Full Size Beds 0
Number Of Queen Size Beds 4
Number Of King Size Beds 0
Number Of Convertible / Sofa Beds 2
Master Bedroom Flooring Type Carpet
Master Bedroom Door Style Conventional Door
Full Size Master Bedroom Closet Yes
Master Bedroom Mirror Doors Yes
Master Bedroom Shades / Curtains Yes
Master Bedroom Location Front
Heated No
Bed Spreads Standard
Number Of Bathrooms 2
Bathroom Flooring Type Vinyl
Bathroom Location Center
Toilet Type Porcelain
Door Type Plastic / Glass
Bathroom Sink Standard
Bathroom Medicine Cabinet Standard
Bathroom Mirror Standard
Bathroom Vent / Fan System Standard
Sink / Faucet Standard
Ceiling Fan Standard
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  #52  
Old 06-20-2014, 10:36 PM
GMUGNIER GMUGNIER is offline
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Bk glad you chimed in, that is the reason I stirred this pot a bit even though it was an older thread, - It was directly related to my questions. It doesn't matter on if it is a 7.3, 6.0 or a 6.7 - this is related to towing BIG HEAVY 5vrs, and the guys here do it all the time. The difference's with your proposed rig and mine are that loaded you are at max 18,000 - I am dry at 18,000 plus, the pin weight's are about the same - from what I have gathered here and elsewhere you'll be fine as long as you can stop the weight. Also you didn't mention where you plan on towing, my major concern is that we are going full time and going to be in grades similar to or greater than the Rockies on a continual basis. If it were just the weekend thing south of the big ranges I wouldn't even be wasting anyone's time. I am more concerned with getting my family stranded by hauling this weight up and down big elevations, and my thoughts are do I spend 10k on a dolly, or spend 25k on a decent class 8? I prefer to not buy a semi - so I am still stinkin on it. You know what they say when you don't know what to do - Don't do anything, so here I am, asking questions........

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Bk - one more thing - I noticed you mentioned a F250 - I would like to point out that a 250 or 350 with those kind of weights -well - a tag axle/dolly might be a good option for you as well.
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  #53  
Old 06-20-2014, 11:30 PM
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G,
I live north east of Denver about twenty minutes. During the summer, we usually travel east to lake McConaughy in Nebraska. It is just about a three hour drive for me. We do head into the mountains several times a year to various places. When traveling west or east on I70, we have a heck of a climb to the Eisenhower tunnel at 11,158FT above sea level. (Trivia- it is one of the highest tunnels in the world). I wonder how well the truck would handle the load coming down the grades. I run dry as much as possible already. I would need to do several upgrades to the truck before I would even think about talking the mountains or, there is always the option of buying a new truck.
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  #54  
Old 06-21-2014, 12:02 AM
GMUGNIER GMUGNIER is offline
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So have you considered the safety hitch? Seems like you are a perfect candidate based on what you are doing. I am more of a 50/50 candidate wherein I think I might be able to make it work, but I am also leaning towards the fact that I may not have enough truck. I just am having a hard dam time figuring out why I spent so much on a truck to haul only my a$$, This thing should haul this load without problems. I hate the new emissions crap - really mucks up the works.....
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  #55  
Old 06-21-2014, 12:15 AM
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I’ve looked at several of the videos for the Safety Hitch system and it looks interesting. We haven’t committed to anything yet. fficeffice" />>>
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  #56  
Old 06-21-2014, 12:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bkuuz1 View Post
Iíve looked at several of the videos for the Safety Hitch system and it looks interesting. We havenít committed to anything yet. fficeffice" />>>
Yea - me too.......
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  #57  
Old 06-21-2014, 05:47 AM
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Originally Posted by bkuuz1 View Post
...When traveling west or east on I70, we have a heck of a climb to the Eisenhower tunnel at 11,158FT above sea level....
Jeezus - there's no freaking air. That pin weight is near the limit for a 250, and I'd be worried about brakes.

I'm shopping for stuff with a lower GVWR - like the Keystone Fuzion 331 (I found a 2014 for $60K at Holman Motors). I'm not going to buy new, mind you... but I'm looking for something similar to that model. Total length is 37'
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  #58  
Old 06-21-2014, 06:01 AM
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I agree Rich, but then again, we don't have much air here to begin with.

I've looked at the Fuzions on and off for the last couple of years. " They are nice".
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  #59  
Old 06-21-2014, 07:53 AM
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I've looked at the Fuzions on and off for the last couple of years. " They are nice".
Stinky's going to be a nice truck when I'm finally done with him, so there's no point in going half-way with what he pulls. I'll be shopping for a 5'er in the $25K to $50K range - just so I don't lose more stuff in the general vicinity of my wallet (depreciation on new is a killer). I have found some very nice rigs in that range - a lot of them in the retiree capitol of the planet (AZ). It would not hurt my feelings one bit to have a nice road trip in Stinky to go shopping. My target date is next summer... but that hinges on how long it takes to saddle someone else with my stockpile of stuff.

For those shopping, this web site is worth a look [LINK]
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Old 06-21-2014, 10:23 AM
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This site has good information on tow vehicle and trailer sizing. They recommend 20% more truck capacity then needed as a safety factor. Tow Vehicle Sizing
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Old 06-21-2014, 10:23 AM
 
 
 
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