Curious what ya'll think:

Chevy Silverado HD2HD | Pickup Truck Comparison | Chevrolet.com

IMHO tests like these are setup to show the positives about the selling product, so I wonder about a Ford marketing response (ie. was the test method flawed, what areas does the Ford shine vs the Chevy, etc.).

I have considered the GMC/Chevy as the next truck but darn it they just don't look all that good next to the Ford!

 

If the test is run or sponsored by a manufacturer, the test is not fair. If the test is run by a magazine that accepts advertising from manufacturers, conclusions are suspect.

 

^^exactly.

My ability to control "test" parameters so that I exploit your weaknesses while showing my strengths is not an independent test at all.

 

I agree with you, but I doubt that even ford could design a test where the Ford goes up the hill quicker than the cheby or would have a more effective exhaust brake

 

Funny...I was going to post this same thread a week ago when I looked at this Hd vs Hd non the GM website. Here are my thoughts:

GM: They boast that they have better brakes, better engine braking, a fully boxed frame, not to mention their legendary Allison transmission.

Ford: They boast better sway control, a more powerful engine (giving you passing power), better fuel economy.

I think they both do a clever job pointing out things they know they do better than their rival...notice that they each don't do all the same tests because they already know the results.

Personally I also think that Mike Rowe is a much better spokesperson than Howie Long is too!

 

I don't agree, but I think mainly because of the way you wrote it.

I believe that these tests are fair, but at the same time they need to be viewed in the proper perspective. With that I do think that their tests were done right and farily for the very narrow set of scenarios that they set up. I also beleive the Ford ads were done right as well, but the results can only be applied to those narrow circumstances.

If you take the truck out of context, for example driving through a ditch instead of using engineered racks to torqe the frame to the max, most will likely find that either truck will do just fine. I remember a year ago I did something similar with my F350, and I didn't bend my tailgate. But again I have no doubt that if I had the same amount of weight they did in the bed and drove up the same ramps I would have.

So I think that the individual data sets are impartial within their narrow scenarios, and not much else. No big deal, I think GM is finally making a competitive truck. Competition doing what it does, this will make future Super Duty trucks better!

 

The frame flexing is designed into the Super Duty, and it's not a bad thing. The best example I can give you of this is an aluminum flat bed semi trailer. Unloaded, they have a significant amount of bow, but when loaded, they are mostly flat. Those frames are designed bow and flex to take shock loads while traveling on rough and uneven terrain. The static test of slowly driving a truck onto two staggered ramps may look bad, but is unrealistic. If you would need suddenly swerve off road to avoid something and cross a ditch at speed, this could create conditions where suspension travel along with frame flex on a Super Duty would absorb this shock load. When you are relying on suspension travel only, a rigid frame may sustain permanent damage. Bend, but don't break.

BTW - At the end of the winter you can hose down and get rid of all the corrosive salt spray on the open frame of your Super Duty. Try that with a boxed frame.

-Gavin

 

I will agree on alot. But gm gear ratios are different in rear end, transmission ratios different in trans. As for the frame stiffness, rigid is not always better. It's hard to compare. I've put trucks thru terrible twists and never hurt anything. I'd wager a rigid GM Hd would be more prone to getting stuck being that riged. If you notice the the Gm tires off the ground. There both great trucks in there own way.

 

Tomahawk. Posted at same time. Results are about the same.

 

I do agree with the squat test. My 2003 2500 HD Duramax, did not squat much whenever I hooked any trailer to it.

For my 2011 Ford, I ended up putting F350 blocks on it, which has the unfortunate side affect of making the rear high when unloaded.

I also did notice that when towing some back roads, my ford brakes got hotter and smokey when the same roads with my DMAX did not.

I cannot comment on the exhaust brake, as I havent really needed to use it.

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Here is a picture of my F250 with 2000 lbs of pellets in the bed....after I had added the F350 blocks.

 

I drove Chevy trucks from 2000-2007. I had no beef with the big 8.1 liter gasser and the Allison. I had no beef with the duramax either, it was a far cry from the last 2 ford diesels in terms of refinement.

My take, the ford chassis was shockingly good when I drove the '08 for the first time. As far as towing manners, my '08 f250 was more stable than the dually silverado I traded in.

So with these new trucks and tests? It's fun to read and you can't argue with the specific experiment and result. These SD trucks we like are fantastic trucks. Heck, I don't care if the others are better. I'm happy with what I have.

 

I think the tests are fair however having the proper perspective is important.

1) The Duramax undeniably has a better exhaust brake. Testing brake fade was just really just another demonstration of how much less braking was required on the Chevy

2) The "Twist Ditch" just demonstrated the stiffness of a boxed frame vs open-C. Stiffness is desirable to allow the suspension to do it's job. I would not try to justify frame flex as being a good thing. Ford used 6.7 mil steel to get adequate frame stiffness and for an open-C frame it is very good however never able to compete with a boxed frame. Ford uses the open-C as they have publicly stated many times for predominantly two reasons a) Upfitter Modification ease and b) strength vs weight efficiency.

Video 2008 Ford SuperDuty - Frame Strength - YouTube

 

The GM twins have to be able to cross ditches at an angle......They don't have the breakover angle to clear straight up. But on anything but ideal traction surfaces you won't have the suspension flex to make anywhere near as extreme as they showed.

 

What part of the frame doing what it's designed to do is bad?
It's engineered to be somewhat flexible.

 

I think the bending of the tailgate is a sign that all is not well, Gavin.