2002 Econoline work van, 5.4L, no power after long set up
#1
2002 Econoline work van, 5.4L, no power after long set up
I've been working on cars & trucks all of my life. Mostly shade tree type stuff but almost never have hired anything done. I'll be 60 my next birthday and was raised in my dad's garage... but never spent a day in any type of auto repair school... all learned by experience and reading on my own. BUT, I've rarely ever worked on a Ford. So, here goes...
This is my son's work van. It seems to have been nothing but trouble since he got it. At first it was brakes... alternator, starter, battery. Then it was the transmission that had to be rebuilt. It has about 90,000 miles on it and supposedly has been serviced regularly. He has owned it for about 5 years. About 1 1/2 years ago the radiator top cracked then it ran hot. He couldn't afford to keep it running so parked it and ultimately quit the job. (Now he's living with me and working with me... we're plumbers/handymen.) The van sat up at his mom's for about a year when he finally put in a new radiator then let it sit there a few more months before we got it started and drove it to my house. It started right up but had so little power it hardly would pull out of it's tracks. I thought about old gas so put about 5 gal of new gas in it. On the way to my house the catalytic converter got red/orange HOT. It caught the mounting rubber on fire. We put it out with a fire extinguiser. Long story short.... still no power. Acts to me like clogged exhaust. I disconnected the cat. converter (no change, just louder exhaust). It shows no trouble codes when scanned. I'm so ignorant about these engines that I couldn't even find the spark plugs. It was my intention to check compression and look for cracked head or blown head gasket. Somebody please help me figure out what's going on? Fuel? Water/condensation in gas? WTF?
According to my son the van would run fine when he had to move it before putting on the new radiator. It has been setting up for several months since then before we went to pick it up... (no need to buy tag or insurance if not driving it...)... I got so frustrated with it today because there is just no room to get to anything and I still have not figure out how to get the caps(coils) off the spark plugs... and I don't know the names of all the new things they've got on late model vehicles. So, you might have to explain what some things are and what they do...
This is my son's work van. It seems to have been nothing but trouble since he got it. At first it was brakes... alternator, starter, battery. Then it was the transmission that had to be rebuilt. It has about 90,000 miles on it and supposedly has been serviced regularly. He has owned it for about 5 years. About 1 1/2 years ago the radiator top cracked then it ran hot. He couldn't afford to keep it running so parked it and ultimately quit the job. (Now he's living with me and working with me... we're plumbers/handymen.) The van sat up at his mom's for about a year when he finally put in a new radiator then let it sit there a few more months before we got it started and drove it to my house. It started right up but had so little power it hardly would pull out of it's tracks. I thought about old gas so put about 5 gal of new gas in it. On the way to my house the catalytic converter got red/orange HOT. It caught the mounting rubber on fire. We put it out with a fire extinguiser. Long story short.... still no power. Acts to me like clogged exhaust. I disconnected the cat. converter (no change, just louder exhaust). It shows no trouble codes when scanned. I'm so ignorant about these engines that I couldn't even find the spark plugs. It was my intention to check compression and look for cracked head or blown head gasket. Somebody please help me figure out what's going on? Fuel? Water/condensation in gas? WTF?
According to my son the van would run fine when he had to move it before putting on the new radiator. It has been setting up for several months since then before we went to pick it up... (no need to buy tag or insurance if not driving it...)... I got so frustrated with it today because there is just no room to get to anything and I still have not figure out how to get the caps(coils) off the spark plugs... and I don't know the names of all the new things they've got on late model vehicles. So, you might have to explain what some things are and what they do...
Last edited by RandyJ2007; 12-29-2011 at 08:19 PM. Reason: more thoughts...
#2
I'm not a mechanic either but to help you in direction...A glowing cat means more unburnt fuel than should be is getting down the exhaust. When this unburnt fuel hits the hot cat it ignites on the catalyst, causing that burning. At this point the cat is probably already destroyed, the cat materials are meant to do a chemical reaction, not handle the heat of combustion. Now you need to find what is dumping so much vaporized fuel down the exhaust.
A compression check would probably be a good start, along with checking voltages on the COP's (Coil-On-Plugs) and the sparkplugs themselves. It is still very odd that you have no codes. I can't think of anything that would let raw fuel down the line like that and not throw a code. At least throwing a running rich code.
EDIT: Oh yeah, as to the COP's i believe they each have 2 bolts, which are 8mm. Take the two bolts out and then gently shimmy it off boot and all (the boot is just the same as a spark plug wire that would run to a distributor). It may be replacement time.
A compression check would probably be a good start, along with checking voltages on the COP's (Coil-On-Plugs) and the sparkplugs themselves. It is still very odd that you have no codes. I can't think of anything that would let raw fuel down the line like that and not throw a code. At least throwing a running rich code.
EDIT: Oh yeah, as to the COP's i believe they each have 2 bolts, which are 8mm. Take the two bolts out and then gently shimmy it off boot and all (the boot is just the same as a spark plug wire that would run to a distributor). It may be replacement time.
#4
LOl Iv seen nests in the valley, I agree red hot cat is unburned fuel in the cats, I would go after that problem first, no codes showing is unusual especially if it caught fire.
excess fuel could leaking injectors, blown fuel regulator( where the gas is getting sucked into the vaccuum line and down the intake, can be checked by pulling the vacuum line on it and seeing if its wet with gas, its on the fuel rail
Check fuel pressure at fuel rail to see if fuel pressure is too high, and how fast it bleeds down, checking regulator and injectors doing this
Other possibilities are a crank postion sensor not reading right, not picking up the misfire to sent to pcm,( above ac pully)
double check cam positon sensor connection as well (right side on timing cover just below valve cover)
the cops are below the fuel rail on top of each cylinder , along with a injector for each, plugs are about 4 inches below each coil,should be one bolt for cops and a 7mm
alot of things can fail when it sat for year
With a vacuum gauge you can check back pressure for the most part(drivers side anyway) by using the rear dpfe hose off the egr tube from the drivers side exhaust manifold, 4 psi max at 2500 rev
Hope this helps and gets you on the right track its a start
excess fuel could leaking injectors, blown fuel regulator( where the gas is getting sucked into the vaccuum line and down the intake, can be checked by pulling the vacuum line on it and seeing if its wet with gas, its on the fuel rail
Check fuel pressure at fuel rail to see if fuel pressure is too high, and how fast it bleeds down, checking regulator and injectors doing this
Other possibilities are a crank postion sensor not reading right, not picking up the misfire to sent to pcm,( above ac pully)
double check cam positon sensor connection as well (right side on timing cover just below valve cover)
the cops are below the fuel rail on top of each cylinder , along with a injector for each, plugs are about 4 inches below each coil,should be one bolt for cops and a 7mm
alot of things can fail when it sat for year
With a vacuum gauge you can check back pressure for the most part(drivers side anyway) by using the rear dpfe hose off the egr tube from the drivers side exhaust manifold, 4 psi max at 2500 rev
Hope this helps and gets you on the right track its a start
#5
Thanks guys... I wish the van were here so I could be working on it. It's at an old house I own 50 miles away. No internet there either. What concerns me is that it ran fine before my son replaced the radiator. I'm wondering if he didn't knock something off. I had a similar problem on a chevy that I built the motor for. I had left off a ground wire which caused the fuel pump to malfunction... after I stupidly spent $300 on a new fuel pump I got online and figured out that I had no fuel pressure (used a fp pressure gauge). I was able to finally find that hidden ground wire. However, dumping fuel in the exhaust is exactly what I suspect here. COP's are something totally new to me. If this were not a van it would not be so difficult... working on this dang thing requires one to be a contortionist... just no easy way to do it. Now, I need to check to see if COP's are working or if the plugs are firing. Hopefully I can print out your replies and take them with me to work on this van.
Like the chevy I mentioned, it cranks like new, idles fine..but no power. Maybe I can figure it out but I'm not sure what the fuel regulator looks like or where it is. If I recall, it is probably on the fuel rail and may have a vacuum hose or wire(s) connected. Guess I need to stay updated on new gizmo's on vehicles.... I cut my teeth on 36 & 40 hp VW's and 283 chevys.... guess I never had to work on Fords much because they probably didn't break down as often... hehehe
I did look for chewed wires and checked for blockage in the air intake. I assumed that disconnecting the catalytic converter would increase the power if the cat or exhaust were clogged.????
Like the chevy I mentioned, it cranks like new, idles fine..but no power. Maybe I can figure it out but I'm not sure what the fuel regulator looks like or where it is. If I recall, it is probably on the fuel rail and may have a vacuum hose or wire(s) connected. Guess I need to stay updated on new gizmo's on vehicles.... I cut my teeth on 36 & 40 hp VW's and 283 chevys.... guess I never had to work on Fords much because they probably didn't break down as often... hehehe
I did look for chewed wires and checked for blockage in the air intake. I assumed that disconnecting the catalytic converter would increase the power if the cat or exhaust were clogged.????
#6
I can't help you with your conditions but working on these things inside the cabin is infinitely much much easier if you simply remove the two front seats!
Two Torx headed bolts and two additional hex nuts and they pop right out. In less than 15 minutes you've got almost 12' of space behind the doghouse now. If you do remove the seats apply a bit of anti-seize to the Torx bolts before reinstalling them---makes removal the next time easier.
HTH
Two Torx headed bolts and two additional hex nuts and they pop right out. In less than 15 minutes you've got almost 12' of space behind the doghouse now. If you do remove the seats apply a bit of anti-seize to the Torx bolts before reinstalling them---makes removal the next time easier.
HTH
#7
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