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  #31  
Old 07-09-2011, 04:32 PM
wmbeattie wmbeattie is offline
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Raptors are not indestructable.Toyota Tundra website members are making a big deal of this.Where do they find room to talk about weak frames?You'll never see a bone stock Tundra make a podium finish in the Baja race.
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  #32  
Old 07-09-2011, 09:26 PM
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There was an engineer on one site I read who did the math. According to his calculations the force exerted on the frame in the "kicker" hit was equivalent to dropping it 56' (yes, feet) from a building. Why did the frames bend up? Because the axle was thrust upwards at an alarming speed in a very short time. The suspension was already partly compressed (so less suspension travel), and basically, the axle was shoved up into the frame, past what the bump stop could take and the frame absorbed the rest of the hit. That is why it's bent up, because the force came from below and moved upward. This is what happens when you play hard and you're vehicle isn't up to the demands. Ford did not, nor has there been any production vehicle, that could of survived that "kicker" hit at those speeds. Driver error, too cocky for their own good, and again, want someone else to pick up the bill for their own stupidity... Ford should hold their ground on this, period.

Also, here's a link to thread in which I read the calculations. He has a few good posts throughout the thread, including the breakdown of how he came to the numbers he presented.

People really, really need to learn there is a whole hell of a lot more to driving off-road then getting in their vehicle, starting it up, and tearing chit up. If you don't understand your equipment, pick up a book, research on the internet and learn. Your suspension is just like your engine. Just because you throw on a bunch of aftermarket crap doesn't mean it works well together.

Another good point from the same thread:

"10 trucks with bent frames + 1 from the so called pre-run (by my count), that really proved to be not much of a pre-run at all. The aspect of this that keeps getting lost is that if they had of done a good pre-run and marked the trouble spots, slowed down and maneuvered around the problem areas, all of this could have been prevented. Whole thing reminds me of the urban legend about lemmings jumping off the cliff….in this case, outlaw is the first one off and all the chuckleheads just follow suit.

Now, in the threads and discussion, you see potential newbie’s saying they are no longer interested in the Raptor and will cancel orders, some questioning their purchase decisions, some wondering if they should even take their Raptors off-road. It is ridiculous. All the hype is leading people to believe there is a massive issue with all Raptors….not good folks. 11 trucks, same course, same obstacles, same speeds - out of the 1000’s that are out there, many being ridden hard and jumped.

Hyping a “weak link” or “design flaw” to generate revenue for site vendors and create more site traffic may lead to a short-term financial gain, but in the long-term, it is a bad strategy decision if the number of Raptor owners go down due to all the bad press.

If this issue was more widespread and happening with more frequency, I would be concerned. But, it seems to be a self-serving endeavor to get a a few trucks fixed without paying. My Raptor is the best auto decision I have made. Best truck I have ever owned and would never hesitate to recommend it to others."
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  #33  
Old 07-09-2011, 11:33 PM
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makes since. besides i have abused the heck out of my f150 and never torn anything up so if you have bent your frame your doing something wrong.
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  #34  
Old 07-10-2011, 02:05 PM
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Hello fellow Ford owners,

I'm on a slight time crunch and will post more laters. Anyhow, I own a 2010 6.2L SVT Raptor...no I wasn't part of this above mentioned group and my frame is fine. Now with that said, one thing that is over looked or not mentioned thus fair is that fact that the bump stops on the Raptor is located on a crumple zone...an area designed to bend during a crash to help absorb energy.
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  #35  
Old 07-10-2011, 03:53 PM
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They're running softer than stock springs, they flawed the design themselves for a cushy ride and now they're paying the price.
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  #36  
Old 07-10-2011, 04:07 PM
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Is this where you write some long thing about how Ford should of beefed up the area and nothing bad would of happened? No offense, if you want to play hard you need to upgrade your suspension components. These guys swapped leaf springs to a lower rated leaf and never upgraded their bumpstops or shocks to work with it. Coupled with the fact that I know of NO production vehicle that'll take that hit and not come away damaged. Not to mention (and I know this is hard for some people to understand) if the frame is now your strong point something else becomes your weak point.

You can survive your frame bending and the vehicle will still drive home. Try busting your spring perches or flat out breaking your axle... do you drive home from that? And the thing I don't get is the estimate he got to repair the frame is what, $700? Cry me a frickin' river. Seems to me someone needs to man up if he wants to play with the big boys.

You do not own a turn key race vehicle, you own a race INSPIRED vehicle. If you want to play hard, shell out the money to have a roll cage installed on your truck, which in turn will strengthen the frame (no more worries about the access hole... not to mention if you're driving in excess of 80+ mph in the desert you should already have one installed) and upgrade your suspension with complimenting items. This isn't Ford's fault, this is people pushing their vehicle beyond what it is capable of. If I buy a Mustang and run it at the drag strip till the motor blows up because I'm to dense to understand my equipment, is it Ford's fault because they sold it to me? Personal responsibility folks. Try it sometime. This is why we can't have cool production vehicles anymore....
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  #37  
Old 07-10-2011, 04:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fireball 440 View Post
They're running softer than stock springs, they flawed the design themselves for a cushy ride and now they're paying the price.
I do believe they changed the tuning on the Raptor's suspension by swapping rear springs. But installing a crash device in a crush zone designed to give in a crash is questionable on Ford's part...especially since they boxed in the same frame sections on the SVT Lightnings.

Here is a picture of the crush zone on a Raptor with the factory bump stops.

Click the image to open in full size.

In this picture you can see a slight deflection in the bump stop have a hard impact.

Click the image to open in full size.


I'm posting this so that people will have more info to base their opinions on instead of emotions. Do I believe these guys abused their trucks? Yes, it's evident in many of the pictures, videos, and testimony. As a Raptor owner, one who takes care of his vehicle, I'm concerned about the ramifications from the actions of a few drivers for one thing. Dealerships are starting to deny warrantee work based on starches on vehicle skid plates or undercarriage. Then I'm concerned as to why Ford chose to install a crash device on the weakest part of the frame...and why they chose to box in this same area on a street truck and left it alone on a truck they marketed as a high sped off road truck capable of jumping?
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  #38  
Old 07-10-2011, 04:19 PM
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Originally Posted by dohc_chump View Post
Is this where you write some long thing about how Ford should of beefed up the area and nothing bad would of happened?
No, this is where you ask why did Ford/SVT feel the need to beef up this area on the Lightnings but not on the Raptor?
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  #39  
Old 07-10-2011, 04:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SVTRay View Post
No, this is where you ask why did Ford/SVT feel the need to beef up this area on the Lightnings but not on the Raptor?
Maybe you should of bought a Lightning instead of a Raptor than.
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Old 07-10-2011, 04:34 PM
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P.S. OMG Batman, the paint is chipped on my frame.
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  #41  
Old 07-10-2011, 04:46 PM
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Should of built a Gen 3 L
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  #42  
Old 07-10-2011, 04:54 PM
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Originally Posted by dohc_chump View Post
Maybe you should of bought a Lightning instead of a Raptor than.
Obviously you fail to comprehend whats being said or you're simply trying to be a clown. Either way, I'm through wasting my time replying to these childish non productive post.
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  #43  
Old 07-10-2011, 04:56 PM
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Ford shouldn't have built the thing in the first place. Real off road racers build their own rides or pay someone else to. Never race anything you can't afford to laugh about breaking.

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Should of built a Gen 3 L
Precisely.
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  #44  
Old 07-10-2011, 05:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Jason Lewis View Post
Should of built a Gen 3 L
You would still be dealing with the same possible frame issue since Ford only has one F150 frame...unless Ford/SVT decided to box it in like the previous Generation Lightnings. Which brings me back to my question, why did Ford feel the need to box in the crumple zone on a "street" truck and not an "off road" truck? I've had my share of street trucks including a S/C Harley F150 and never heard of one bottoming crushing the frame?
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  #45  
Old 07-10-2011, 05:20 PM
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Originally Posted by SVTRay View Post
Obviously you fail to comprehend whats being said or you're simply trying to be a clown. Either way, I'm through wasting my time replying to these childish non productive post.
I think you fail to comprehend the vehicle you own. Did you even look under your vehicle prior to buying it or only after all this frame bending hoopla started? Is this the first off road vehicle you've ever owned? I only ask because the people I know who off road a) know that breakage is a part of off roading and use it to build a better vehicle and b) own up to their own stupidity.

Lots of people beat on their Raptors with no problems. Why? Because they a) know how to drive b) don't try running over 12" curbs at 60+ mph c) drive within the vehicles capabilities. The owners of the Raptors in question changed a component within their suspension system and paid the price for not matching them. End of story. If there were Raptors bending frames left and right on every one that was jumped or abused, that is reason for concern. However, that isn't the case.

Should we be concerned 10 out 14 trucks on one run, out of how many thousands of trucks produced, bent their frames on the same day, on the same run, running over the same obstacles, and going the same speeds? Do you want to mention that those who stepped up from the run that didn't bend their frames were still running their stock leaf springs?

Presented with the facts a) overheated STOCK shocks b) SOFT aftermarket springs c) beating the living snot out of the vehicles for 200+ miles, in which another participant of the event attested people were doing, not to mention the videos d) NO pre running of the course by the drivers and NO cb communication to one another (this is what your co-driver is for).

Why don't they go after Outlaw Raptors? They're the ones who did the "pre run" and they're the one's who led these guys out there. In my mind, they are the ones who failed the owners of these vehicles, not Ford. They didn't mark the course, they didn't make the other drivers aware of upcoming obstacles, and in my mind they allowed things to get out of hand as far as speed and driver skill level/vehicle capability.
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Old 07-10-2011, 05:20 PM
 
 
 
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