I posted this in the Brakes, Steering, Suspension, Tires, & Wheels section, but got no replies, so I thought I should post it here, too.

Short version of my problem: steering in my truck is difficult. Sometimes when I go around a turn it feels like something is shifting.

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Longer version: there is a problem with my front-end and I'm not sure if it is with the suspension or the steering. I could be driving straight and there will be no problems, but when I try to turn left or right, it is difficult to steer. Sometimes, while I'm in mid-turn, I feel something shift in the front-end. Then, when I come out of the turn and straighten it out, the truck pulls to the left or right depending on which way I originally turned-a right turn or a left turn. Or, instead of pulling to one side or another, it will wander all over the road. It feels like the lugnuts aren't on the lugs and the wheels are shifting all around.

When I bought the truck, it had 33x12.50 tires on 10" rims. I drove it a few thousand miles and I didn't have any problems. A couple of months ago, I found a set of stock wheels (7" or 7.5," not sure) with good 31x11.50 tires already on them. Sidenote: I'd like 9.50s or 10.50s, but can't afford them right now.

Just after I put the new wheels/tires on the truck, I had it aligned. The original tires (the 12.50s) were wearing heavily on the inside of the front tires. So even though they were wider tires than the 11.50s, there was probably less rubber touching the ground because it was WAY out of align. Just a narrow stip of rubber was touching the ground with the 12.50s on.

So, a few weeks and a few hundred miles later, this problem with the front-end (as described above) starts. I took it back to the shop where I had it aligned and they looked at it. The technician (not mechanic) said he didn't see anything wrong with it, but for some reason it was out of align again, so he re-did it for free.

At first, I thought the problem was fixed, but after driving it for 40-50 miles, the problem came back again.

Me and my dad (he's owned and worked on Ford trucks for the past 40 years) looked-over everything and all looked OK. All the ball joints seemed OK, so he thought it must be the steering box. I put a different steering box in it that we took out of a newer ('92) F150. This seemed to help a little, but not much.

I also put a new power steering pump in it a couple of months ago.

The stock springs and shocks are still in it. I took the left front shock out for giggles and there was no rebound at all. When I compressed the shock it just sat there, compressed. I also noticed that the coil spring insulators are worn almost to the point that there is nothing there. The insulators are the rubber pad that the coil springs sit on. With these insulators worn, would it make the coil springs shift just a little bit? Is this the cause of my problem? I got new coil springs, insulators, and shocks.

The truck is an '84 F150 4x4 with the dana 44 IFS.

Does anybody have any suggestions as to what is going on?

 

Perhaps the axle pivot bushings need replaced.

 

There are two axle pivot bushings, aren't there? I replaced one (the one that is on the passenger side) when I bought the truck because it was slap wore-out. The other one looks OK though.

 

Get under it with a light and carefully look over the front of the frame around the steering box, and around the front crossmember. It doesn't happen often, but some trucks have problems with cracks developing in the frame.

 

Yes, 1 bushing per axle.

Another item worth looking into is the axle pivot brackets. They can get worn around the bolt hole if not torqued down sercurely, or they can start coming loose from the frame due to the rivets/bolts not fitting well, not to mention the possiblity of the bracket cracking from the stress of running large tires. This is VERY common when a lift kit has been added, as the early kits didn't add extra bracing for the passenger side bracket.
33x12.50-15 tires typically indicate a lift has been added.......

 

I just took my truck to Tires Plus where I had it aligned. They weren't too busy, so one of the mechanics came with me for a ride so that he could better understand the problem.

When we got back to the shop, he lifted the whole truck up and used another, smaller lift to take the weight off the front suspension. He checked all the ball joints. There was a LITTLE play in a couple, but not enough to cause the problem. He looked at the control arm bushings, but they were just replaced recently (by the previous owner) and they look alright.

When he was prying on the driver's side tire to check the ball joints, he noticed that there was a lot of movement. It turns out that the subframe assembly that the steering box is bolted to is loose. There is as much as a 1/4in of play between the frame and subframe. The rivet that is on the back part of the subframe is worn. Even with the vehicle on the ground, I can get under it and spin the rivet in place.

He suggested cutting out the rivet and using a Grade-A bolt in its place. I asked if I should weld it too, but he said the bolt should be enough.

Now I've got to figure out how I'm going to do this. We have an air hammer chisel that I can probably get the worn rivet out with. And Tractor Supply down the road probably has Grade-A hardware I can use. To do it right, though, I need to take the steering box out again. What a b!tch.

Franklin2: me, my dad, and the mechanics didn't see any cracks anywhere. We looked, because we knew it was a possibilty.

Rogue_Wulffe: there isn't a lift kit in the truck. The previous owner put the 33x12.50s on. I don't like really wide tires, but I like tall tires. If I had the money, I would do a 3"-4" lift and use 33x10.50 BFG A/Ts.

 

My dad has a '96 regular cab longbed 1-ton 7.3L that rides better than my truck with the dana 44. Hopefully it will be a little better when I put new coil springs and shocks in.

 

That's grade "8" bolt, not grade "A".

Removing the rivet(s) can be accomplished with an air chisle. Other methods exist as well, like grinding off the head, drilling thru the center then cutting off the head (much easier to cut off this way) and the good old "hot wrench" AKA cutting torch.

If one rivet is loose, the others cannot be far behind. I suggest replacing them all with grade 8 bolts. Any holes that are wallowed out can cause future issues to recur.

This type of issue isn't that uncommon. Usually caused by either large tires, frequently turning the steering wheel lock-to-lock while stopped, or a combination of both.
While you're under there, check all the rivets holding the entire front suspension and crossmember. Sounds like this truck has seen a lot of stress on the frame from wide tires and/or plenty of steering use at a complete stop. Something that didn't occur before power steering became practically standard.....

 

Thanks for the correction on the grade 8 thing, Wulff.=me.

Couldn't I just use the air chisel to knock the head off the bottom of the rivet and punch it out the top with a hammer and punch? I probably won't even need the hammer/punch. The rivet (or subframe?) is so worn that the old rivet looks like it would just slide out once I have the bottom off.

The mechanic also suggested welding the front part of the subframe to the frame as a precaution. The front rivet does not look worn.

 

Yeah, air chisle to pop one end off, and punch the rest thru.

This had me curious, so I stepped out and looked at my truck. Seems the front of the inner frame section (where the gearbox mounts) has a bolt in it, and derned if it doesn't look a hair loose.......
Well, I'm off to have a closer inspection.

 

As for the hard to steer, i've seen it many times, especially from vehicles that have been sitting for a long time, or aren't regularly greased, the ball joints seize.

That would be a good thing to check, and check for any play, do they have grease zerts on them?

 

IDIDieselJohn, like I mentioned above, a couple (the passenger upper and lower) have a LITTLE play in them. They look like they've been replaced recently. All four have grease fittings and I keep grease in them.

As to them seizing up, I'll ask Nate (the Tire Plus mechanic) about it tomorrow.

 

I think if I was going to use a bolt or bolts to fix it, I would get the rivet or rivets out, and then figure out what the next size bolt up from the hole would be , and drill the hole out. That way the bolt would fit tight in the hole, and then you could crank it down and it would probably hold. If you put a bolt back in the hole that was sloppy like the rivet, and then just relied on the pinching force of the bolt to hold the frame together, I bet it would not hold.

That's why the factory rivets are normally so good. The frame holes are a tight fit, and when they smash the rivet at the factory, it swells up and takes all the clearance out of the frame hole.

 

That's what I plan on doing today: get the rivet out first and then figure out what bolt I need. I'm also going to weld in a few different places as a precaution.

 

I got the rivet out with an air chisel. I didn't have to drill-out the hole in the frame, I just hammered in a 1.5in x 0.5in grade 8 bolt. Besides two flat washers and a nut, I also used a lock washer. I tightened as well as I could with a 0.5in HD impact wrench. Ingersoll-Rand said the wrench is rated at 550lb-ft of max torque. I think that should be enough. I didn't weld anywhere yet, but plan to as soon as my brother has time to do it.

I also put in front coil springs and shocks all around. It definitely rides better and sits about 1in to 1.5in higher in the front (but still needs another 1.5in to be level with the rear)

The truck still pulls to the right, is difficult to steer to the left, and occasionally something still "pops" when I turn to the left. It is nowhere near as bad as it was, though.

I got under it and checked all the rivets that would affect the front-end and I made sure the radius arm bushings were tight. I also made sure the radius arm brackets were tight. The axle pivot bushings looked good. I replaced the passenger-side one a while back and it is still tight. The driver's side one is tight, too.

The only thing I can think of now is that one of the ball joints is seized-up (somebody on this website mentioned this as a possiblilty, but I don't remember who). There is a little play (less than 1/32in) in the passenger-side upper/lower, and also in the driver's side lower. There is no play at all in the driver's-side upper. When I bought the truck the driver's-side upper didn't have a grease fititing. I had a heck of a time getting one in it, but it seemed to take grease once I got the fitting in. Maybe it was too little too late, though. I'll see tomorrow after I put one in.

Rogue_Wulff, what did you mean when you mentioned the axle pivot brackets above? Aren't the axle pivot bushings pressed directly into the crossmembers?