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Old 02-08-2011, 07:46 PM
Louisville Joe Louisville Joe is offline
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2014 Super Duty

When is the next generation Super Duty due out? The 2011 still has a lot in common with the original 1999, and I think it is about time we saw a new-from-the-ground-up Super Duty. The new engines have made a big difference, but it is time the rest of the truck was completely updated. There are some things I think need improvement.

First off, the powertrains are fine. They are new, and I think all that is needed are some software tweaks for the Torq-Shift and maybe a larger displacement 6.2L to put the V-10 to rest in the 450 and 550.

Chassis- This is an area that needs to be looked at. The current chassis is too heavy. I think Ford needs to consider a boxed design made out of higher grade steel, at least 45,000 psi.. Special attention would need to be paid to corrosion protection (go back to that wax coating), and it would probably make sense to keep the chassis-cab models a C-channel behind the cab. One problem with the current Super Duty is the unladen weight is so high the trucks have less payload than GM and Dodge though they have similar GVW's.. A lot of the excess weight is in the chassis.

Front suspension- Twin-I-Beam on the 4X2's needs to go! It doesn't handle as well as GM and Dodge and it still wears out tires fast. And, I think IFS should be considered for the 4X4's. A well designed IFS has a lot of advantages over a SFA. Handling, ride, ground clearance, overall height of the truck can all be improved. Don't think of the pre-2011 GM front ends, they were not strong enough. It can be done, and result in a better truck.

Body- I think Ford needs to rethink the unitized front cab structure. Welding the inner fender supports and lower core support to the cab firewall not only makes for extensive repairs in moderate collisions, but it makes servicing difficult. This is one of the reasons the cab must be removed for many engine repairs. Resistance to corrosion needs to be improved as well, particularly the bed.

What do you think?
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Old 02-08-2011, 09:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Louisville Joe View Post
Front suspension- Twin-I-Beam on the 4X2's needs to go!
Preach that Gospel! Ford needs a real IFS to compete. I'm thinking a beefed up IFS in the F250s and a solid axle in the F350s, add some real differentiation between the two lines. Want a Caddy-like ride? Buy an F250. Want a solid axle and all those benefits? Buy an F350. Heck, make the GVWRs the same so it's really just a suspension choice and you don't loose any carry capacity. I'd buy the solid axle anyways, but some guys are desperate for "good ride quality" instead of "it's a truck and rides like crap," so why shouldn't Ford give the the people what they want.
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Old 02-08-2011, 09:10 PM
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The Super Duty is constantly evolving. It has only a few things in common with the original (cab structure/doors). The Super Duty trucks help to keep the medium duty (F450-F750) viable. The Super Duty is more of a down rated medium duty rather than an uprated half ton, like the competition. I doubt you will see Ford basing their 3/4-1 ton trucks off of a half ton, or making any big changes until they loose market share or the feds mandate them to.
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Old 02-08-2011, 10:04 PM
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It seems to me that Ford could learn a thing or two from PACCAR(Kenworth and Peterbilt). Design a cab and a chassis as a standard and leave it alone. Why do Americans demand a new body style every year with even more creature comforts that jack up the price. Look at the Kenworth W900L and the Peterbilt 379. They've had basically the same body style for decades on a proven chassis. Offer it in different configurations/upgrades (power-train, suspension, etc.) and leave the basic truck alone.

I don't know why Ford even makes the 250 and the 350 anymore. It would make more sense to make one or the other but not both. If you want a soft ridin' grocery getter in a pick-up, go buy an F-150. I personally would not be interested in a boxed in frame for a work truck.

I was reading a post earlier today where a member here was debating a Ford or a Jaspar rebuilt Torqshift transmission. I about fainted when he was quoted $4800.00 from Ford to replace it. On top of that automatics is the only choice now. What about these new diesel engines that cost half of the price of the truck to replace. Utterly ridiculous for a light duty pickup if you ask me. Ok, my mini rant is over...Great Thread!!!
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Old 02-08-2011, 10:26 PM
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The solid front axle is just one the many reasons im coming over from the GM side, IFS is fine on a half ton, but on a heavy truck it just seems kind of whimpy to me. As metioned earlier if your worried about ride quality go buy a cadilliac!
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Old 02-08-2011, 10:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Louisville Joe View Post
When is the next generation Super Duty due out? The 2011 still has a lot in common with the original 1999, and I think it is about time we saw a new-from-the-ground-up Super Duty. The new engines have made a big difference, but it is time the rest of the truck was completely updated. There are some things I think need improvement.

First off, the powertrains are fine. They are new, and I think all that is needed are some software tweaks for the Torq-Shift and maybe a larger displacement 6.2L to put the V-10 to rest in the 450 and 550.

Chassis- This is an area that needs to be looked at. The current chassis is too heavy. I think Ford needs to consider a boxed design made out of higher grade steel, at least 45,000 psi.. Special attention would need to be paid to corrosion protection (go back to that wax coating), and it would probably make sense to keep the chassis-cab models a C-channel behind the cab. One problem with the current Super Duty is the unladen weight is so high the trucks have less payload than GM and Dodge though they have similar GVW's.. A lot of the excess weight is in the chassis.

Front suspension- Twin-I-Beam on the 4X2's needs to go! It doesn't handle as well as GM and Dodge and it still wears out tires fast. And, I think IFS should be considered for the 4X4's. A well designed IFS has a lot of advantages over a SFA. Handling, ride, ground clearance, overall height of the truck can all be improved. Don't think of the pre-2011 GM front ends, they were not strong enough. It can be done, and result in a better truck.

Body- I think Ford needs to rethink the unitized front cab structure. Welding the inner fender supports and lower core support to the cab firewall not only makes for extensive repairs in moderate collisions, but it makes servicing difficult. This is one of the reasons the cab must be removed for many engine repairs. Resistance to corrosion needs to be improved as well, particularly the bed.

What do you think?
i disagree with you on basicly every point...

while the SD could surely use a complete revamp i dont think throwing away pretty much everything about teh current truck is in order..

and i vote NO on anything that involves IFS wether it be 2WD or 4WD...
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Old 02-08-2011, 11:01 PM
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The current 250/350 platform with solid axle and heavy frame are two of Fords best selling items. The trucks are heavy for a reason. You have many more white knuckle drivers in the Chevy and Dodge trucks than the Fords regardless of towing weight.

They own the best power, unsurpassed braking, strength and reliability amoung others, than any other truck on the planet. I think the current platform should stay the way it is for a while so they can concentrate on seeing how well it works around the new engine line-up.
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Old 02-08-2011, 11:33 PM
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Remember that the weight of the frame providing mass at a low center of gravity helps a lot when you're towing a heavy load or when you have a heavy payload stacked in bed. Yes, it takes away from the numbers they can post but lets face it most people buy Ford because they can count on its preformance not the payload numbers they put on paper
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Old 02-09-2011, 03:42 AM
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the reasons mentioned by others is why i, working at a truck outfitter. we install more flat beds,service bodys, tow truck bodys, van bodys, snow plows...ect on ford super duty trucks. f-250 - f-750's they are built heavy and get worked heavy in many cases. which is why many work truck fleets run fords.
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Old 02-09-2011, 08:03 AM
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IFS is great if designed right.

C-channel frame is best! Ask toyota about boxed in frames and how much they spent on recalls.

All american companies need to take better rust prevention actions! Its pathetic!

A total remake? Before this generation ford had the same chassis/body base for like 18 years.
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Old 02-09-2011, 08:08 AM
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Compare the 99' to the current 11' side by side and you will find more differences than you think. Anyone who wants a truck like the OP described can just go buy a Sierra or Silverado.

Quote:
One problem with the current Super Duty is the unladen weight is so high the trucks have less payload than GM and Dodge though they have similar GVW's.. A lot of the excess weight is in the chassis.
The Ford is closer weight wise to the GM and Dodge now. Not as far off as they used to be.
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Old 02-09-2011, 08:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JKBrad View Post
The Super Duty is more of a down rated medium duty rather than an uprated half ton, like the competition.
I agree with this statement. This is the reason I am a Super Duty owner. Keep the solid axles. Keep the C channel frame look at the dominance in the work truck upfitter world Ford has. Get rid of the I beams on 2wd trucks. How many of you guys look at the crazy camber angles of a Chevy 3/4 or 1 ton with a plow hanging off the front of it?
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Old 02-09-2011, 08:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Louisville Joe View Post
When is the next generation Super Duty due out? The 2011 still has a lot in common with the original 1999, and I think it is about time we saw a new-from-the-ground-up Super Duty. The new engines have made a big difference, but it is time the rest of the truck was completely updated. There are some things I think need improvement.

First off, the powertrains are fine. They are new, and I think all that is needed are some software tweaks for the Torq-Shift and maybe a larger displacement 6.2L to put the V-10 to rest in the 450 and 550.

Chassis- This is an area that needs to be looked at. The current chassis is too heavy. I think Ford needs to consider a boxed design made out of higher grade steel, at least 45,000 psi.. Special attention would need to be paid to corrosion protection (go back to that wax coating), and it would probably make sense to keep the chassis-cab models a C-channel behind the cab. One problem with the current Super Duty is the unladen weight is so high the trucks have less payload than GM and Dodge though they have similar GVW's.. A lot of the excess weight is in the chassis.

Front suspension- Twin-I-Beam on the 4X2's needs to go! It doesn't handle as well as GM and Dodge and it still wears out tires fast. And, I think IFS should be considered for the 4X4's. A well designed IFS has a lot of advantages over a SFA. Handling, ride, ground clearance, overall height of the truck can all be improved. Don't think of the pre-2011 GM front ends, they were not strong enough. It can be done, and result in a better truck.

Body- I think Ford needs to rethink the unitized front cab structure. Welding the inner fender supports and lower core support to the cab firewall not only makes for extensive repairs in moderate collisions, but it makes servicing difficult. This is one of the reasons the cab must be removed for many engine repairs. Resistance to corrosion needs to be improved as well, particularly the bed.

What do you think?
The interior is better the anything out there.
The Body still looks better then anything out there, although I would like to see a more Retro 76/77 body lines, grille and clam hood!
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Old 02-09-2011, 09:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by texastech_diesel View Post
Preach that Gospel! Ford needs a real IFS to compete. I'm thinking a beefed up IFS in the F250s and a solid axle in the F350s, add some real differentiation between the two lines. Want a Caddy-like ride? Buy an F250. Want a solid axle and all those benefits? Buy an F350. Heck, make the GVWRs the same so it's really just a suspension choice and you don't loose any carry capacity. I'd buy the solid axle anyways, but some guys are desperate for "good ride quality" instead of "it's a truck and rides like crap," so why shouldn't Ford give the the people what they want.
Yep, if you want to cut market share put a IFS on a superdutys These things are NOT Slot cars. They are working trucks. Get a car if you feel the need for a softer ride! BTW Mine ride great, like a real truck should!
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Old 02-09-2011, 09:23 AM
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No changes please. I like the way they are. The one thing I am sick of hearing ALL the time is stuff about ride quality. It's a heavy truck meant for work (towing, hauling, pushing, pulling). For those that dont use them for work but have a heavy 5th wheel or travel trailer appreciate the load carrying capabilities as a trade of for a rougher unloaded ride. It seems like the crowd that just has money pouring out of their pockets and decide to buy a fully loaded KR 350 for looks complain about the ride. Buy a ride quality vehicle like a high end SUV. For those that even say that the IFS system on chevys are better I beg to differ. I use my fathers 2wd 2500hd for a week and that rode pretty much just as rough as my 250 4x4. Mabye the front was a little better but the rear bounced and hopped just as much over bumps in the road when unloaded. F-150...... that thing rode nice, but squatted so bad with a moderate trailer tongue weight or payload and was just too squishy/squirmy with a load.

I think the trucks have commanding look that has been polished and refined every couple of years. I am biased to the 05-07 looks as I have one but each year looks great. The boxed frames to me only trap the salt from the roads in the winter causing corrosion where I can't see it. I used to spray out the F150 frame during the winter, i know I'm crazy. If you don't have winters then it may not matter. I put firestone air bags on and if the frame was boxed...not sure it would have been so easy to mount.

The rusting rear fenders seems to be caused by some foam put in there, why, no one can tell me. Luckily Ford replaced my bed sides last summer under warranty and removed the foam from the new ones. I still wash it out after a salty trip though, I hate rust. Solid axles are great, hubs and bearings could be improved for easier maintenance, at least from what I read on here. I love the idea of the DynaTrac free spin kit but dont love the $2k price tag.

Changing something that works for the "just because" reason just leads to problems.

Wow sorry for that one!
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Old 02-09-2011, 09:23 AM
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