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1987 - 1996 F150 & Larger F-Series Trucks 1987 - 1996 Ford F-150, F-250, F-350 and larger pickups - including the 1997 heavy-duty F250/F350+ trucks

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  #1  
Old 12-08-2010, 02:09 PM
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ChappyWagner ChappyWagner is offline
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pages/Justin-Vangelista-Chicagoland-Realtor-Illinois-Real-Estate-Partners/185878461427830?sk=wall JustinVangelista
Replace EFI 460 from 92 F250 with D1VE-A2 and D3 heads and maintain the EFI

I have a 92 F250 Ext-Cab, E40D, Mechanical 4x4, D50 front and Ford 10.25 rear axles. My engine is a 460 with EFI.

I believe I have some ring problems because I have burned about 3 quarts of oil in the last 200 miles and I have got some serious blue smoke coming from the exhaust.

I am not too interested in a thorough diagnosis of this problem...the engine has 160,000 miles on it and is probably do for a rebuild/replacement.

I've found a 460 out of a '73 truck...Casting is D1VE-....-A2. The heads are D3 Castings.

My question is can I replace my EFI 460 with this D1VE-A2, and use my intake manifold (I believe it is an RF-EZTE-9425-BB) without any serious modification.

I've been told that the D1VE-A2 will use the same mounts and should bolt up to my E40D. I am concerned about whether an older carburated engine will fit and function properly inside my 92 F250 and accept my EFI Intake manifold. The D3 heads have been redone so I'd like to keep them on the D1VE-A2 if possible.

Sorry if I am confusing anyone, I am new to this forum and am somewhat new to engine swapping as well.

To rebuild my current engine would cost substantially more than purchasing this rebuilt 460 would. If it will bolt right in and work right then I am going to buy it. If not I might be pulling and rebuilding.

Any suggestions/guidance are greatly appreciated. Let me know if I've left out any important info.
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  #2  
Old 12-08-2010, 03:49 PM
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D3 as in D3VE heads? No, the ports won't match the EFI
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  #3  
Old 12-08-2010, 04:03 PM
oleman oleman is offline
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So far as I am concerned a rebuilt engine not rebuilt by a commercial engine rebuilder is a core engine only maybe good for rebuilding.
I rebuilt the 460 in 88 F350 last year.
Total out of pocket was around 2000. with me doing all the wrenching.
If you want something cheap get a 302. A new set of pistons are lass than $100. but you will still have a 5.0.
So far as I know nothing on the prior to EFI engine will fit on the efi engine. The part numbers for the block crank cam pistons and heads are all different. No one I have talked to knows what the differences are they are just different. The EFI intake is not going to work the intale ports on the efi heads are in a different place so manifolds are different.
Based on conversations with the machinest who bored my block and turned my crank the EFI engine is better in all directions than the older engine. He was a ford fan and had machined many 460's but never a late model one before.
Hotrodders like to old engine before they think it was a hotrod engine. It never was so far as I know. Just a big car engine and a pickup engine. It was never used in a real truck. So it was never heavy duty. But neither was the EFI 460 ever a truck motor.
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  #4  
Old 12-08-2010, 06:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oleman View Post
I rebuilt the 460 in 88 F350 last year.
Total out of pocket was around 2000. with me doing all the wrenching.
If you want something cheap get a 302.
Add in the cost of converting everything over from a 460 to a 302 you have gone over $2000 cost of just rebuilding the 460

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Originally Posted by oleman View Post
So far as I know nothing on the prior to EFI engine will fit on the efi engine. The part numbers for the block crank cam pistons and heads are all different.
With the exception of theEFI intake to non EFI heads, you can swap back and forth all you want between an EFI engine and a Pre EFI 460. Now whether it will work with the EFI is another story, but If you wanted to use a 1970 block, a 1990 crank, a set of 1975 rods and a set of 1994 heads with the EFI cam and intake, it will all bolt together and never know the difference.

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Originally Posted by oleman View Post
Just a big car engine and a pickup engine. It was never used in a real truck. So it was never heavy duty. But neither was the EFI 460 ever a truck motor.
Click the image to open in full size. Care to define a "real truck"? F-Super Dutys came with 460's, are a class 4, 15,000lb+ GVWR and IIRC a GCWR over 26,000lbs, making it actually need a CDL if you load it that far. Also, the Dana 80 axle available in them is rated for 11,000lbs itself.
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  #5  
Old 12-08-2010, 07:15 PM
Selder Selder is offline
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As mentioned the EFI uses many different components than the older engine with the intake, heads, exhaust manifolds, distributor, crank being the major ones. The intake/heads/exhaust manifolds must be used together as a system as the intake and exhaust ports are in different locations. Obviously the EFI distuributor only work with the EFI. The 73 distrubutor would work if you go with a carb.

You should also be aware that the EFI engines are externally balanced where as the older engine will be internally balanced. This means that the balancer and flexplate or flywheel must remain with the crank they came from. Mixing old and new will result in major vibration and broken parts.

You could run the intake/heads/exhaust from the EFI engine on the 73 shortblock if you found a flexplate or flywheel to work with the transmission you have. If their both were autos you may be in good shape as I believe the C6 and E4OD use similar flexplates other than balance.

Steve
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  #6  
Old 12-08-2010, 07:28 PM
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Thank you guys for your fast and educated responses. I'm glad I found this site.

Based on everyone's info, I have decided not to buy the older 460. I've found an EFI 460 about 2 hours away from me that is currently in a rotted out F250. It is still in the truck so I can hear it run and the asking price is only $300.

It's not rebuilt or anything, but for that price I think it's worth the gamble. The truck is not my daily driver, and cash is tight right now. As long as it isn't belching smoke like mine is right now I will probably come home with it.

I forgot to ask the year of the truck the engine is in, but am I correct in assuming that an EFI 460 is an EFI 460 and should work in my truck?

If I wanted to I know I could take my current engine out and dismantle it, have the block inspected, bored (if need be) and honed (price estimated at $195-$265). While it was apart I would feel obligated to do a valve job on it (price estimated at $375). I could buy a rebuild kit and throw it all back together and get running again ($400-$800). All this would cost me well over $1000 and that number is just off the top of my head without running into any unforeseen problems/expenses.

Selder... I considered using my EFI heads, but I don't really want spend money on a valve job/decking my head. That's why I thought it would have been great if this entire swap was feasible. Maybe that's a foolish reason, but right now $300 comes a lot easier than $375 for a valve job (as quoted to me) and the $650 I was going to spend on the complete 460.

I'm not going to be offroading or towing anything huge. The truck is mainly for me to be able to move plywood/drywall/building materials and possibly plow a few driveways with. If it wasn't burning oil, I wouldn't be planning to rebuild it for fun, so if I can just replace the whole thing with a used engine I'll be satisfied.
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Old 12-08-2010, 10:43 PM
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460s have been externally balanced since 1979, also a C6 will bolt to an EFI with external balance flywheel and a E4OD will bolt to an early internal balance flywheel. The only concerns I would have about using a 73 short block assembly and bolting a EFI heads/intake/exhaust on it would be whether the cam profile and compression would work with the EEC
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Speed costs money! How FAST do you want to go? '04 Excursion EB 4x4, 6.0 PSD, '94 F350 Crew Cab (Emergency Response Vehicle), 4x4, carbed 460 , E4OD, 4.10 Gears; '90 F250, carbed 460, E4OD RIP; '78 Bronco 460, C6 4" lift, 38" Swampers RIP
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  #8  
Old 12-09-2010, 07:03 PM
Selder Selder is offline
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The 92 and earlier EFI engines use a slightly different head casting (E7TE) and smaller intake valves (1.96"). In 93 Ford redesigned the heads (F3TE) and put in a bigger intake valve (2.08"). Otherwise the engines are identical including intake and exhaust manifolds.

The 93 and up is rated at 15 more HP and torque which is probably largely due to the heads. Since you're already starting with a 92 engine you can't do any worse than you have now and may even pick up a few HP if your donor truck is a later model.

Steve
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Old 12-09-2010, 08:14 PM
aguitarestv aguitarestv is offline
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460 Ford Forum - Powered by vBulletin
this forum has EVERYTHING you need to know about the 385 series. very helpfull site. from stock rebuilds to 1500 hp monsters.
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  #10  
Old 12-09-2010, 10:15 PM
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Thanks Selder...

Is it necessary to use the flywheel off of my old engine when I swap in the replacement EFI or will the replacement flywheel be balanced and fit properly so long as it also came off an E40D?
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Old 12-09-2010, 10:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChappyWagner View Post
Based on everyone's info, I have decided not to buy the older 460. I've found an EFI 460 about 2 hours away from me that is currently in a rotted out F250. It is still in the truck so I can hear it run and the asking price is only $300.
I forgot to ask the year of the truck the engine is in, but am I correct in assuming that an EFI 460 is an EFI 460 and should work in my truck?
For the most part that's true. there can be minor differences in engine ancillaries, but you'll likely get those with the other engine. So just get the other truck's ECU, and it should control them just fine. Possibly you should get the engine wiring harness from it also.
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Old 12-10-2010, 12:05 PM
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Thanks for the 460 update. I have been attempting to sort out the family differences.
A superduty is a pickup, remember I have an F350 it is a pickup that hauls parts for the big truck, I can park it in my driveway and the home owners association doesn't mind because everyone that sees it recognizes it as a pickup. If I parked a real truck in my driveway I would immediately get a move it in 24 hour warning.
We own a real truck, real trucks are BIG with large engines, made by Cat, transmissions made by Eaton, tandem axles by rockwall, and air brakes with GVW's over 80,000#.
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Old 12-10-2010, 12:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oleman View Post
Thanks for the 460 update. I have been attempting to sort out the family differences.
A superduty is a pickup, remember I have an F350 it is a pickup that hauls parts for the big truck, I can park it in my driveway and the home owners association doesn't mind because everyone that sees it recognizes it as a pickup. If I parked a real truck in my driveway I would immediately get a move it in 24 hour warning.
We own a real truck, real trucks are BIG with large engines, made by Cat, transmissions made by Eaton, tandem axles by rockwall, and air brakes with GVW's over 80,000#.
And I own a Pete379 with a 525 Cummins, 13dod and DS404 rears, 425 steers, setup for pulling heavy haul, etc which IS parked in my driveway (actually in back by the garage) since I choose not to live in the country where the neighbors can't/don't cry if they don't like seeing it.

Just because my Pete is a higher class rating, doesn't make it any less or more of a "truck" than a medium duty F450 thats a mile or two down the road. If owning a class 8 tractor means you have a real truck, then does that mean that everybody on here that owns a F250 or F350 should tell the guys that own F150's they don't have a truck since the F150 isn't reall spec'd or capable of doing what a F250 or F350 can do? Should the F150 guys do that to the guys that own Rangers? Maybe we should change the name of the website to Ford (NOT REAL) Truck Enthusiasts?

BTW, take a 1995 F-Super with a 460 EFI and a bucket or service truck body on it, and I would bet that your homeowners association would be all over you for having a "truck" parked there in the driveway.

Quote:
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We own a real truck, real trucks are BIG with large engines... with GVW's over 80,000#.
Hmmm... considering that max legal GVW is only 80,000lbs, (with the exception of a few places that are grandfathered in on secondary highways, Nebraska for example) and the majority of the "company rigs" you see going down the highway are only spec'd for a max GVW of 80,000lbs, does that mean all the Schneiders, JB's, Werners, etc you see rolling down the road are also NOT real trucks?
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Old 12-10-2010, 12:49 PM
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Does this qualify as a "real truck"

1995 F150 with a N14 mounted in it

Click the image to open in full size.

Click the image to open in full size.

******** width="480" height="385">*********>
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Speed costs money! How FAST do you want to go? '04 Excursion EB 4x4, 6.0 PSD, '94 F350 Crew Cab (Emergency Response Vehicle), 4x4, carbed 460 , E4OD, 4.10 Gears; '90 F250, carbed 460, E4OD RIP; '78 Bronco 460, C6 4" lift, 38" Swampers RIP
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http://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/10...2-11-10-a.html
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Old 12-10-2010, 01:49 PM
bobbyjo9 bobbyjo9 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by L. Ward View Post
Does this qualify as a "real truck"

1995 F150 with a N14 mounted in it

Click the image to open in full size.

Click the image to open in full size.


******** width="480" height="385">


*********>


Now would this really qualify as mounted "in" it or more mounted "on" it!!??? LOL.. Nicely done sir!
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Old 12-10-2010, 01:49 PM
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