2017 F250 CCSB 4wd - 6.2L - 132,500 miles ........... No Lift/Level ........ Bilstein's at 100.000 .............. Bilstein Steering Stabilizer (SS) at 100,000 --- currently factory 275x70R18 Goodyear Wranglers..

Monday at about 132,500 miles doing about 60 mph on a 2 lane blacktop, I hit a rough spot going over a small bridge at about 60 mph and there was no doubt....... death wobble (DW). Had to slow to at least 30-40 mph to stop oscillation. I have felt oscillation come close to DW a couple of times since the 1st event but so far only one pure out of control DW.

I've read all about DW here for 4+ years, watched the videos, printed the TSBs etc. This is what prompted the Bilstein steering stabilizer at 100,000.
(yes........ I know the SS is a band aid but figured if I was changing shocks that I needed to change my band aid.)

Yes....... I was one of the guys that thought some of you DW guys were absolutely FOS......... probably just a butch of kids that had screwed around with a worthless lift/level and screwed up the front end. But ........... here I am with effectively a stock F250 with the dreaded DW.

STEP 1
This AM I went to what is considered the best front end alignment guys in my area (many tires shops, law enforcement, etc use them). They came back with the good news and bad news. Good news is they couldn't find nothing wrong with suspension or alignment. Bad news is....... they couldn't find anything wrong. They checked track bar ball joint, tie rods, drag links, etc. All appeared good. They would not even let me pay them anything because they didn't do anything. They did tell me to come back if I was able to correct the problem to help educate them. They did say they have fixed several with parts replacement, alignment changes, etc. But, they are not sure where to begin on mine.
(they did check caster for me ....... +1.5L / +2.2R).

STEP 2
Go to Ford dealer. The exclusive Super Duty service rep made an appointment for me at 9am June 1 (2 weeks off).

STEP 3
Go to another Ford dealer. Their earliest appt was about 1 month out but said if I could drop it by for a few days that they would be able to work it in. (maybe but not today)

STEP 4
Called a reputable tire shop that has been around a lonnnnng time. They need me to drop so they would have time to check, order parts, etc. I told them maybe tomorrow.

STEP 5
Stopped by a large reputable repair shop that does a lot of fleet/commercial service. They also need me to drop off.
Ended up in a death wobble discussion. They check alignment, track bar, look for worn suspension/steering parts, etc. They said they they would want to adjust alignment out of Ford specs. I said Caster....... he said yes.

This shop is finding that adjusting Caster to 5ish is what is needed. (after replacing any worn parts, etc.). The Ford spec is +1.5 - +4.

I am speaking with a service rep not mechanic. He seems to know a great deal about the problem and how to diagnose and fix. I don't see where I have anything to loose by letting them take a look. I will probably drop it of in the AM. I will come back here and update.

(NOTE: Everywhere on this forum and every video I've watched agrees that Caster needs to be +4 or more ..... 5ish. The only thing that does not agree with this is the FORD TSB 18-2268 which suggests Caster to be at the low end of +1.5-+4. This is based on my research and may or may not be accurate. I am simply basing this on everything I have read or videos watched to-date.)

LOGIC
Since I went 132,500 miles without DW, logic suggests something has changed.
--Something is worn and needs replacing!!!!
--I have not had DW for 132,500 miles (with my Caster where it is now)
--My son thinks tires could be the issue.
(I just pulled my 35" duratracs off about 2,000 miles ago and put the factor size Wranglers back on)

Appreciate any comments or suggestions. What an epic PITA!!!

 

In my Jeep experience, DW is usually caused by worn tie rod ends. A little slop allows the wobble to start. If it was lifted, I would blame the drag link angle change vs stock.

 

Front tire pressure? Low pressure can cause death wobble in some cases.

 

Thanks!! I just double checked both fronts are showing 58lb on sensors and tire gauge. Door jamb sticker is 60lbs. Check!!

 

Check the track bar again, particularly the ball joint end. It either joint is the least bit bad... I would suggest a good aftermarket bar assembly. Align to factory spec's, set the caster close to maximum recommended but not over.

 

Thanks!!! I will be climbing under in an 1-2 hours to inspect myself. Like I said above under "Logic" .......... I went 132,500 with no DW. Therefore... something has changed/worn. I agree, from everything I've read it's probably connected to the track bar. If I had to do anything/something right now without inspecting further, that ball joint would be the first part I would change.

I really don't see a need to start adjusting alignment. Particularly without finding what has caused the problem after 132,500 worry free miles.

 

Truck years aside, my then all stock 06' F250 had a bad DW experience at ~50k. They found a bad upper ball joint.
Immediately thereafter I did a 2.5" front level w/track bar drop bracket, F350 rear blocks w/driveshaft spacer, Bilstein 5100's, Dual stabilizers, 285/75/17 Nittos, Hunter alignment w/2 deg. Caster shims. Truck has driven incredible to this day with 230k on the clock. Just did tierod ends for the first time about 10k ago. Currently drives better than my 22' with 2k miles.

 

You have a worn part. Don't pay someone to "check it" check it yourself.

Have someone move the steering wheel back and forth (about 1 time per second) about 1/8 turn each time. While that's going on, check EVERY single joint. Tie rod ends, pitman arm, ball joints, ball joint on the panhard, look for excess play on the rubber bushing at the panhard... when I say check the joint, I mean feel between the joint and where it's connected for any play. check all your rubber bushings.

Somethings worn, it's just a matter of what. If you have a habit of turning the steering wheel when parking with the wheels not moving and your foot firmly on the brake, I can guarantee something is worn at 137k miles..

 

Well thats exactly what i did.

I found play at:
- track bar bushing at bracket
- drag link at pitman arm
-drag link at tie rod

TIp: Put your hand on the drag link or track bar while the engine is running and someone is turning steering wheel back and forth. You can feel the damaged joints by holding the track bar or drag link...... a blind person can feel this. Dont rely on your eyesight alone.

The only piece that appeared solid is driver side tie rod end. Probably because all the damaged parts above/ahead of it have so much play.

Will be replacing track bar and drag link and all tie rod ends while I'm at it. Leaning towards PMF. Will update after install.

 

Yep, that'll do it. Double check ball joints while you are replacing joints, it's easier to feel those when the wheel is off the ground...

Also note that the track bar at the frame side is torqued to 406 ft lbs. If you throw a 4 foot cheater bar on your wrench, you'll need to apply 100 lbs at the end of the bar to torque the bolt. (Just a way to torque the bolt to the spec since I'm sure you don't have a torque wrench that goes that high). If you hang weights to get the 100 lbs, just do it when the wrench is at a 90 degree angle to the ground...

 

UPDATE: Finally ...................

Spent the last 2 nights installing:
--New 1.5" level icon dual rate springs/coils
--New PMF adjustable track bar
--New PMF draglink
--New PMF tie rod ends
-----Alignment complete

The connections at both ends on the draglink were suspect/bad, the bushing at the frame end of the track bar was bad. So, I simply replaced both bars and the tie rod ends to address the steering system problem(s).

I decided to try the dual rate coils while making the other replacement/upgrades up front.

PROBLEM SOLVED: No more vibrating slop in steering. Steering is great ..... after alignment. Jury is still out on the dual rate coils but so far it appears a nice upgrade.

Now I am just left with deciding on a bracket to mount the steering dampener in the stock location, or
Install the dual steering stabilizer.

After all the reading I have done on both .................. I think the dual system is best and may reduce or minimize wear of the steering system. I am stating this simply because it seems to me that it would since they oppose and combat vibrations in the steering system.

Anyway ............. now that I have resolved the steering issue, I will be installing additional steering stabilization.

P.S.- I did not have an extra pair of hands helping, this project was a b$$$$!! Especially at about 100% humidity and 80 or more degrees. But, I learned a lot and obtained a new really nice floor jack, some new heavier duty jack stands, and a new pitman arm puller since both of the ones I rented from O'Reilly were junk. The threaded shaft was stripped on one and the frame of the tool was bent out of shape on the second. At the price of gas it's much better just to pick one up for about $16 at Harbor Freight.

 

Thank you for the update.

can the mods please sticky this thread? Sooner or later all of us live front axle people are going to refer back to this and this has a lot of informative step by step trouble shooting and discussion in very few posts.

 

may as well go dual stabilizer. all the other superduty on the road has one

 

LESSONS LEARNED:
If there is a problem with the steering, death wobble, etc. ............... something is worn and needs replacing. Likely more than one thing.

For me the worn components included:
-- bushing end of the track bar
-- the ball joint end of the track bar where it attaches at the axle
-- the ball joint end of the draglink at the pinion
-- the passenger side tie rod end of the draglink
All of these has varying degrees of wear or degradation.

I think the best advice was given by Norcalpr above. Don't rely on anyone else to check for the problem. It's so easy to check yourself. You will need a buddy to start the truck and turn the wheel left and right with some pace. Maybe count one thousand one, one thousand two to go from full right to full left and then pause a second and go back and forth. You really don't need to go all the way left and right. Just go back and forth left and right.
Lay under the front end with a light and look at each steering connection for movement (connections of track bar, draglink, and tie rod). Also grab each item (track bar, draglink and tie rod) feeling for thuds or thumps. Where you have a problem you will see, hear, or feel it (or all 3).
I went to the most recommended alignment shop in my area and they did not find a problem. Told me everything looked solid. I am going back to see them next week with the parts I removed. They asked me to come back if/when I found the problem so they could possibly learn.

As mentioned by another member above, I would surely think a bad ball joint could case the same or similar problem. I have not found a bad ball joint but I am going to give them a closer look now that these other items are repaired..

I have driven over 100 miles the past 2 days with no steering stabilizer or damper. It may be a couple of weeks and several hundred more miles before anything is installed. I have hit many of the same severe bumps, pot holes and asphalt buckles that I hit before my repairs. There is no vibrating steering wheel, no death wobble or even near death wobble. This confirms the fact that the damper and or stabilizer is not the cure or repair for death wobble. If you have death wobble you probably have a worn steering system component. Find worn component and fix it........... then put your choice of damper or stabilizer on to further enhance your steering system. There are some that may have an alignment/caster issue but death wobble is more likely a worn or combination of worn steering components.

BTW: After my install I went for a 2 mile test drive. Everything drove OK but the truck seemed to wonder really bad. I was thinking I wasted a bunch of $$ on my components which I had read nothing but great reports about. I drove another 45 miles before getting to the alignment shop and by that time i really thought my whole repair was a wasted effort. The DW issue was gone. but the truck just seemed to endlessly wonder down the road.

Then I got the alignment and it was like night and day. So what was the difference??? Going from slightly negative toe (toed out) to slightly positive toe (toed in). Since the alignment steering is great. Extremely happy with the outcome.

For those interested. ........... I was showing about 3-3.5 caster before my repairs. I did not touch the caster bushings.
After the addition of the 1.5" coils, ........... caster is now 2.1 left and 2.5 right.

Thats about all I have. Hope this helps someone down the line!!

 

Nice. If you throw some caster bushings at it (even a 1 degree on each side) you'll be amazed at how much it'll drive better than it already does.





And don't believe the hype, dual stabilizers are an absolute waste of money. its not for tire size anyways, It's just for looks, (just like the dual, triple and even quad shocks back in the day). This big ole pig doesnt even need one and it has 40s. If anything they make your truck drive worse. You already proved my point. Your truck drives fine without even having one, why would you need two?

if not 2, why not 3? 4? 20?

People just automatically assume they need 2, and it looks cool. Just throw one good one in the stock location. It's more than all you need...