For widely known reasons (national security, balance of trade payments, the environment, household financial impacts) fossil fuel consumption is a big deal. Any serious consumption that could be abated at a reasonable cost is worthy of consideration.

For that reason, I've posted a "teaser" on a more widely read sub-forum that will eventually point people here to read up on where people cooling (AC) and engine cooling are part of that overall fuel consumption issue, and a novel idea I'm mulling that could dramatically reduce that consumption.

Auto makers need another push in this area, because for over 100 years of automotive technology development, the industry has fought just about every new thing that didn't go straight to increased profitability.

The government / NHTSA had to MANDATE safety requirements

Thru CAFE the government had to MANDATE fleet fuel economy averages.

Via the EPA mileage estimates, the government MANDATED that consumers be given important product information about fuel economy via the manufacturers sticker.

Until 2008 the EPA figures didn't consider / require that there would be virtually ANY operation of auxiliary equipment. None of the fuel economy estimates reflect the use of the air conditioning.

AC use being just part of one test, even now, auto makers don't care much about delivering efficient AC that does not suck loads of gas.

As a result we end up with some of the least efficient / cheapest parts and processes for producing cooled and dried air.

After all: We are paying for the gas burned and they are not.

I invite you to read the teaser (copy provided below) and respond with your own ideas here, there, or wherever else you like. I'm going to share my recent discoveries / ideas on the subject, which, with the exception of one item that should not be too hard to guess, are simply extensions of and combinations of things which are already well known to most everyone in this forum.

Here comes the teaser ... in a few minutes I'll provide a link to the thread in the other forum.

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Original teaser thread here: "Keeping your cool" challenge ... - Ford Truck Enthusiasts Forums

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Summer is rapidly approaching, and I'd like for you to imagine yourself in this "family drama", and how much some timely relief would be worth!

It's blistering hot and you live in one of those regions where the air is generally choking with humidity too. You and the wife are in the truck heading over to visit friends, and once underway she decides that she simply must "pop by" and "pop in" to check on her mother. Of course, you're more than welcome to come in too!

You demure, realizing that you'll be burning gallons per hour revving / idling the engine just to avoid dying of heat exhaustion while you "check on the ballgame" in the truck instead.

But what if you could just shut off the engine and be blasted by arctic air, only having to leave the switch in the "on" position? How would that be possible, and what would it be worth?

Some hints. You're not:

- Driving a reefer truck.
- Pulling the APU from your Peterbilt behind you.
- Driving an F150 mated to a Prius chasis

The rescue from this situation costs under a thousand dollars and has the following benefits (more hints):

- Your non-AC fuel economy goes up by (2) MPG.
- Your AC driving economy goes up by 2-4 MPG.
- You are ice cold in the hottest city traffic / no revving.
- Engine temps are better than ever.

I don't know of an "off the shelf" solution for solving this set of problems, but I think I've figured out how to do this.

What do you think it entails? Your answers will certainly give me more to think about and likely an even better solution.

 

I also plan to post the in depth technical answer in this thread, in the AC forum: "Keeping your cool" challenge answers - Ford Truck Enthusiasts Forums

----

Summer is rapidly approaching, and I'd like for you to imagine yourself in this "family drama", and how much some timely relief would be worth!

It's blistering hot and you live in one of those regions where the air is generally choking with humidity too. You and the wife are in the truck heading over to visit friends, and once underway she decides that she simply must "pop by" and "pop in" to check on her mother. Of course, you're more than welcome to come in too!

You demure, realizing that you'll be burning gallons per hour revving / idling the engine just to avoid dying of heat exhaustion while you "check on the ballgame" in the truck instead.

But what if you could just shut off the engine and be blasted by arctic air, only having to leave the switch in the "on" position? How would that be possible, and what would it be worth?

Some hints. You're not:

- Driving a reefer truck.
- Pulling the APU from your Peterbilt behind you.
- Driving an F150 mated to a Prius chasis

The rescue from this situation costs under a thousand dollars and has the following benefits (more hints):

- Your non-AC fuel economy goes up by (2) MPG.
- Your AC driving economy goes up by 2-4 MPG.
- You are ice cold in the hottest city traffic / no revving.
- Engine temps are better than ever.

I don't know of an "off the shelf" solution for solving this set of problems, but I think I've figured out how to do this.

What do you think it entails? Your answers will certainly give me more to think about and likely an even better solution.

 

Line the inside of the truck with polar foam!? Yeah... Dont think this option exists.....?

 

huh?...........

 

seems most posters so far have been dipping into the peyote.

 

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>.> i do not understand

 

well let's see. I'm guessing that the 2mpg non ac and 2-4mpg ac driving means that you are removing the ac compressor all together. I'm wondering if your not adding a huge compressed tank of something and just releasing it as you need to get the temp you are looking for.

 

I received one suggestion already this morning, and while it wasn't my idea it certainly falls into the category of "crude but effective":

kirby56 on another board said he'd seen Ford Ranger folks suffering from being underpowered and needing AC actually cut a hole thru the bed and cab, sliding a window unit in behind the seat, running it off an inverter!

I believe this would reduce the resale of many fine trucks, and it might be difficult to adjust the controls behind the seat ... I've an extended version that sort of features the kernel of your idea, but the implementation is significantly different.

 

while were at it, why don't we swap over to all LED lighting, for go the radio and navigation and do away with the alternator as well.......just run a single 8-d battery and plug her up when you get home to keep it topped off......

there is a 12 volt marine AC unit that is about the size of a large lunch box, completely self contained and very quite...... i would say no more noise then a factory unit on max air inside the cab.....would fit behind the seat even in a standard cab....

i was sort of kidding about the 8-d conversion, but seriously, what would be involved with "clutching" the alternator like the current AC compressor......it kicks in at a certain voltage or amount of current draw.....using a twin battery set up(one dedicated starting battery)

sorry if i got too far off topic.....you just got me to thinking

 

Congratulations! You've just plugged in an important (and very key) piece of the puzzle. Look familiar?

Masterflux SIERRA01-0434Y3XA

It runs on the right voltage, and there's no particular reason to limit its use to only boats!

More big tips: They sell the parts separately, so why not use the truck's own condenser!

And they make separate controller units. Mix and match as you see fit!

Masterflux Analog Controller 9-30V DC

Your battery(s) and alternator have to be pumped up a bit to go this route but the 33amp draw for the box system tells me this is entirely within the realm of possibility.

 

out of curiosity, how many BTU's is a factory system on average........

ok....what if we connect a 12 volt dc motor to the compressor, up the alt to 130 amp, and run a 27 series deep cycle for engine off operation.......convert to hfc (propane/butane) to lower the head pressure and increase cooling ability......we might just keep the ice cream from melting

 

Let me express some ignorance in this area. Is this converting the vehicle from gasoline to HFC? I am unfamiliar with the reference to "head pressure" ...

And how much AC? Did some searching just now, and it confirmed a number I heard in auto mechanic school 30 years ago: two tons or so, about 24000 BTU. Takes about five horsepower to drive many compressors.

 

You need to know how much energy it takes to drive the original a/c unit and the energy it takes to drive the unit you're talking about to see if it'd be worth it. Just because it runs off electricity doesn't mean that you're going to save gas simply because the stock compressor is belt driven. 33 amps will put quite a load on the alternator, which as I'm sure you know is belt driven. Seems to me that you are replacing one system with another and thinking you'll create free energy.

http://www.masterflux.com/userimages...a_Sheet_R1.pdf

Looking at it more, I believe you'll put more load on the engine than you would keeping the stock compressor.

 

There are plenty of numbers to crunch, but you should remember that a compressor freed from crankshaft speed can run much more efficiently than one which HAS to go all over the place in terms of RPM to do its cooling.

You also have to consider what will happen to efficiency when these parts are recombined with those available in an automotive application.

The condenser they're showing as part of a contained unit is a tube and fin design. The parallel flow condensers that are very affordable today are much more efficient.

Also consider fact that you're NOT running the fan pictured with the unit. That certainly takes up amps!

When the truck is blasting down the interstate at 70mph, does it really need a fan at all, except perhaps for some spectacularly stressful scenarios?

That's another hint, BTW. A hefty chunk of MPG savings results from removing the clutch fan and installing a whoppin' big (Taurus 16" or MkVIII 18") set of fans.

There is no free lunch. There is simply a choice between more and less expensive lunches.

We cannot focus on ONE compressor from ONE company. It merely serves to show us that possibilities are out there.

Masterflux has a bunch of these compressors, with many different capacities. The real limiting factor for this vendor is which controllers control which compressors, and what are the available input voltages of given controllers.

I would bet that with the right mods to make a controller 9-30v compatible, you could run virtually any of their systems, some of which generate plenty of BTU.

 

You're talking a lot but you're not talking about the efficiency of what you will be swapping in. I still think you're going to be loading the alternator to the point of offsetting the benefit. Good luck though!