So here's the short history:

A month ago I bought an 88 F350 Dually 5speed. The day I go to pick it up, the clutch pedal goes to the floor and stays there, 2 turns from where I picked it up. The guy that sold it to me was SUPER nice and got the new clutch master cylinder, and we put it in together... but it never really felt great, and a week ago, I started having real problems getting in to 2nd, or down to 3rd from 4th. Double-clutching and matching RPMs helped some, but I'd still *click* gears. Reverse would GRIND or BANG in to place, so I parked in ways that I wouldn't need reverse.

So... I get a new master cylinder, this one with an aluminum body. And I've spent HOURS trying to get it bled to where it works right, but no luck.

Other possibly related things are that when I pushed the pedal fully to the floor, the whole dash moves. Not just a little either, but it's not falling in to my lap.

So what gives?? What's the uber-secret technique to getting this bled properly? Or could it be that I really need to replace the slave cylinder too?

Please help!! And thanks in advance!!!

 

Very little throw is used to disingage the clutch and there is a fault in the firewall that impedes this, if you go to Ford, they have a brace that installs on the cab side of the firewall. And they have info on other clutch related problems. My expereince is when I installed the brace and a new clutch m/c, the slave cylinder soon failed. So take a look at your slave cylinder and if it needs replacing theres a couple hints I can give you, I put 3 of them in my 86. lol

 

I read something a few weeks back about the firewall cracking and thus the repair kits - there are 2 available - *small* or *large* so to speak. How can I tell for sure if the firewall is cracked, etc.? Or just too much flex? Should there be ANY flex?

I'm thinking about just getting the new slave cylinder, but any info/experience/advice would be GREATLY appreciated!!!

Never too much info!! haha!

Thanks!!

 

Sure sounds like cracking to me.

The way you describe that the dash is moving the cracking is most likely in the support bracket for the clutch pedal rod that bolts to the firewall.

Bets are your master and slave cylinders are fine. The reason your pedal goes to the floor is that the clutch pedal support bracket flexes away from the firewall and hence does not push in the Mastercylinder rod the way it should and the clutch never properly dis-engages.

Remove your clutch pedal and support bracket (not the nicest job I am afraid) you will have to disconnect the steering column universal joint to get the clutch pedal support bracket out. There are several bolts that bolt it to the firewall. Once you got your clutch pedal support bracket out you could get a good welding shop to re-weld it or spend quite a few $'s on the replacement brackets hopefully still available from Ford.

I just welded mine up and re-enforced it around the master cylinder rod loop to keep it from cracking again.

Make sure you also upgrade your master cylinder rod to a steel rod if you got a plastic rod like I had on my 93'. Once again, atleast for the 93, Ford did not sell the rod separately from the cylinder so I ended up machining myself a new rod.

Check to cracks on the entire bracket, around bolt holes, as well as on the loops that the clutch shaft passes thru.

Also check for cracks in the firewall itself.

Good luck.

 

Well, if I have to remove the steering column, etc.... i was wondering if the steering column from a 92 or 93 would bolt right up? What I'm actually looking to do is swap in the whole dash & steering from a donor truck, but I don't know how compatible the wiring and mounting locations are... but that's for another thread!

When I'm underneath the truck, and my buddy is pumping the pedal to help me bleed the system, I look up and can see the brake & clutch master cylinders moving a good bit. I would guess the deflection is in the range of maybe 1/4" at the front edge of the brake unit. It is deflecting towards the driver's side of the truck.

Cracking makes sense, but sounds like a PITA to fix....

Hamberger - do you happen to have any pictures of the cracks in your bracket? maybe some 'after' pictures too?

Do I need to remove the steering column, or just disconnect the U-joint? Are any specials tools required? BFH is ALWAYS handy..

Thanks again for all the info everyone!!! The more the better, as I'm sure there could be multiple reasons for my grief! Thanks again!

 

Sorry, no pics,

You don't need to remove the entire steering column, just disconnect the U-joint and then push the steering shaft toward the steering box to get it out of the way.

I don't remember using any special tools.

The first thing you will need to get rid off is the clutch switch that locks out the igintion unless the pedal is pushed for starting. Note sure if the 88' uses same switch as the 93'. The 93' switch is a real pain as it hooks into a step on the master cylinder clutch rod. But I guess you got all that figured out already since you already changed the MC before.

If your firewall/dash/or steering is moving a 1/4" then you definetely got trouble.

There is a lot of leverage between how far your pedal travels and the short amount the MC rod travels. If the bracket and firewall are no longer sound then a 1/4" is all it takes to loose enough travel on the MC to the point were your clutch won't disengage anymore.

 

I don't think the dash is moving a 1/4" - I was referring the the end of the brake master cylinder moving to the side. That being said, the dash moves up & down at least 1/2" where the steering column comes out of it. So I'm sure the firewall is flexing some... how much, I can't say....

Sounds like I need to get some tools and get wrenching... just wish I still had my MIG welder, but I wasn't good at welding anyway

I'm heading out the door in a minute, but does anyone know of some links to the firewall repair kits for these trucks? I *think* the 'small' one is already there... or maybe just a loose spacer when I bolted the replacement master cylinder in place. I REALLY don't want to go through unbolting the Clutch MC again, but if I have to .... ugh. I'm gonna be a pro at one thing at least!!!

 

MIG Welder may not work to well. I used my Oxy-Acetylene torch. The metal the bracket is made up of is real crap and I ended up chasing some cracks for an inch or two.

The bracket basically fatigued itself around the bolt holes that hold it to the firewall.

Also the loop that supports the clutch pedal shaft (the one closest to where the MC rod attaches had cracked right thru. I re-enforced the loop by welding a washer to it to bring the metal thickness from the measly 1/16" to about 3/16".

Note, for bracket repairs you don't need to remove the MC again; that said it might be a good idea to remove it anyways to check for cracks on the firewall itself.

The clutch pedal, spring, shaft and bracket come out as an assembly. To do the welding you need to dis-assembly it on the bench by removing the nut on the drivers side of the bracket and sliding out the shaft. To be able to confirm any cracking in the bracket at the loops you will have to dis-assemble as it is hard to see otherwise.

Good luck.

 

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The kit is easy to install, I did not need to remove steering or clutch cross member, papa, take my advice and go to a Fords Parts dept and they will have all the info to install this bracket...I have two trucks, an 86 on which I installed the bracket and an 84 which has a brace welded on, both work fine, you choose...Hamberger is correct, you have fix the firewall flexing before adjusting, replacing, bleeding anything else. lol

 

So I finally had time to really look around and found at least part of my problem....



awful purty crack there, don'tcha think??? NOT!!

hmmmm... so now I get to yank out that bracket, get it fixed, or .... replace it somehow. Anyway, I thought some people might be interested to see what the problem is too. I'm a visual kinda guy, so I like pictures...

 

Yap that looks like part of the problem alright.

You can keep bleeding the cylinder till the cows come home and it won't fix a thing.

 

Soo... where is that Ujoint in the steering column??? that part looks to be aluminum, meaning i'll need a skilled welder to fix it properly, yes?

 

Your cracking is in a different place than mine was. You will need to remove the bracket and complete pedal assembly from the truck to fix. There is no way anybody can weld that on the truck.

Also, it may be cheaper to get the proper parts from Ford as bcford6.9 pointed out if you can't weld it yourself.

I don't think the bracket is aluminium, atleast mine wasn't, it just looks like it is.

Use a magnet to confirm.

Mine is made out of some crappy steel alloy that was very difficult to weld, so you may be better off getting a new part anyways.

Just start figuring out how to remove the clutch pedal and you will sooner or later realize that the steering column needs to be disconnected to get the bracket out. If you follow the steering shaft toward the firewall you will find a U-joint. I had to disconnect it to get my bracket out.

Since your truck is a slightly older body style than mine, your set-up may look a little different.

Good Luck.

 

The column doesn't need to be disconnected to get the bracket out, it just needs to be unbolted from the bracket and dropped. The brake booster needs to be unbolted and pulled out of teh way from under the hood, but, the column will drop out of the way. Both the booster and the steering column are bolted to the bracket. I think, 2 more bolts holding it to the dash after those are unhooked and it will come out.
The 92+ setup is a good bit different than the 80-86 and 87-91 setups. They both use the same column, but the bracket itself is different. Either way, they don't have a U-joint inside the cab like the later trucks do.

Papa: Where are you located? I have three of those brackets taking up space under my work bench if shipping would be worthwhile...