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Thanks to everyone's help here on my quest to bring my beast back to prime shape. After seeing the recommendations and feedback including the very helpful tech folder "Modded Suspension Call - Request Your Measurements" I have narrowed down to the Pirate's recommended ProComp 22210/22415 setup but want to clarify a few details for my setup to see what may change or if it isn't the best fit if I alter it.
'05 Limited 6.0, approx 100K miles, currently stock suspension, Mostly hauling family and road trips, infrequent towing.
I have read at least some others (sammie0126) removed a leaf to lower the overall height. I likely only want enough lift to clear the OEM F250 20" Wheels (275/65/20) and improve the ride
Has anyone else removed a leaf from the proposed setup to reduce lift?
Remove the lowest/bottom leaf I assume?
Removing a leaf change the characteristics of the setup?
Does it change the parts list (see below list)
shims degree & shocks especially
Are new Brake Lines needed for the setup with or without a leaf removed?
Will that allow me to keep the factory 1" Rake? -
Airbag best way to get rake I want?
The Spring Plate gets me "Airbag Ready" what else is recommended if/when I decide to add airbags, i.e. what is a good kit - cradles for full when at full sag so I won't rip them
with built in jounce bumpers
What is the least amount of lift I can do and still fit the 34" F250 wheels with the 2" Fred Goeske spacers?
While I'm in there, what else should I do? I'm already planning Ball Joints,
I am not 100% but I thought you would remove the bottom leaf on the front and bottom 2 on the rear. However note this does change the overall spring rate of the springs so load capacity will be diminished. I only ever heard of one person on this forum that actually did this and I think they ended up putting the removed leafs back in. But don't quite me on that Is there a reason other than height you don't want to go 4" ?
I am not 100% but I thought you would remove the bottom leaf on the front and bottom 2 on the rear. However note this does change the overall spring rate of the springs so load capacity will be diminished. I only ever heard of one person on this forum that actually did this and I think they ended up putting the removed leafs back in. But don't quite me on that Is there a reason other than height you don't want to go 4" ?
I read in another post/the height list that sammie0126 removed a leaf.
4" seems like a big lift from stock to me. Visually is what I am torn with, not performance, etc. Am I misunderstanding that the total lift will take the height from roughly 23" stock in the front (center of hub to wheel arch) to a full 4" over that? or is some of that offset with removing blocks, etc?
You're going to want about 2" of lift in the front, as the 34's on spacers will rub on the inner fender at stock height. At least that is what happened on my 01 F250 with OEM 18's and a 275/70-18. Then I did a coil spring conversion, which gave about 2" of lift...no issues no....and no spacers.
My front went from 23" to 27". I don't know if the poor condition of my OEM springs made the ride lower than stock and would not cause as much of a correction over a less compromised stock setup. 4" is a significant amount of change to a family car, I don't know if you intend to keep your running boards, upgrade them to something that will allow for easier entry, or if your family all has 36"+ inseams... but diminutive or mobility-restricted people will face an additional challenge with the added height. Try to keep from using the steering wheel to leverage yourself into the cab, it will result in premature wear on the column, not to mention your lower back if you are of a certain vintage.
As we've discussed, my rear end did not come out level, or even raked - it appears (could be an optical illusion, but it looks "off" regardless) that the rear is in a slight negative rake. The math says it should result in 4" on both ends, but there are clearly some individual irregularities that seem to make the amount of resultant lift somewhat of a variable.
As far as I know, the jury is still out on the bags being added to the PMF upper plates - I don't know of anyone who has completed an installation. Hopefully someone who has done it will answer up. I have the AirLift 88340s on order (internal jounce) so I should be able to share some data hopefully by the end of next week. Through some actual math and some guesstimation, it looks like the plate levels (stock vs. PMF) result in about a 2" difference - removing a ~2" block, raising the plate height by ~1" (plate now on top of the leaf pack, but with a shorter leaf stack), and adding a longer spring resulting in the overall lift. I could get closer to an accurate number if I had some measurements between a stock jounce bumper and the stock tang with a stock suspension, but I don't have that data. Part of the "spend $400 and see how it goes" method. The cradles take up an inch, so if those are in place, I'm guessing I'll wind up with around an inch of gained travel before the airbag begins to take weight.
Correcting rake could come in several forms: keeping some pressure on the bags, so long as it doesn't negatively effect ride; a recurve of the rear springs; adding a zero-rate spring (essentially, a block) which may require anti-wrap compensation; or adding the inevitable winch and heavy-duty bumper up front. Obviously, my initial path will be to try the bag pressure first, probably the winch/bumper next, and if all is not well by then, the recurve. I'm hoping to not have to go down the block/traction bar path. A shackle inversion/hanger relocation is laborious and results in a minimum of ~2", which would be an overcorrection for my configuration.
I never tested the new springs with the old brake lines to see if they would be of sufficient length - I just saw it as an opportunity to replace and upgrade 17 year old rubber brake lines. My sense is on the front it would have been straining them at lock with all the leaves, the back may have been okay without but it wasn't worth the risk to me.
I don't have any idea what will fit and won't fit under the ProComp path - other than my Falken WildPeak 285/75-18's (34.8" diameter) on ProComp alloys make it with no issues. I did just pick up some fairly decent King Ranch 18's, I'll be doing that swap soon but I expect no changes in fitment.
My parts list looks a little different than what Pirate settled on. I'm having difficulty finding my parts spreadsheet or I'd rattle off what I used; if I find it, I'll post it. I would by no means recommend my choices over his, though, as I think my selections came before he vetted all the possible combinations. I know my rear u-bolts could be a little longer, and my shocks are different than what you have listed above (at least the rears are for certain).
Your buddy may be referring to shaft misalignment resulting in vibrations caused by removing the block - this is corrected by the degreed shims. Otherwise, I can't think of a reason that removing the block would cause any vibration. I have not experienced it, and I don't recall others with the ProComp setup complaining of this issue.
Any questions, let me know and I will try to answer.
If all you need is 2" to get the 20's underneath it, I'm pretty sure you could get away with a shackle lift in front (sometimes sold as a "leveling kit") and then the 22415s in the back which gave me 3" there (YMMV). You'd get your 1 inch rake that way (I think), even have the option of removing a rear leaf if it's too high in back. You may want to swap the front springs with OEM replacements as the originals are likely sagging.
I haven't seen this done, maybe someone will pipe up with experience or opinions on why this is or isn't a good idea. I have no experience with how a shackle lift effects ride or handling, I'm sure there is some detrimental effect simply due to the additional lateral leverage on the shackle. My guess is you would also have to shim the front axle to correct for pinion angle changes.
I was starting to think along those same lines. Thank you (PrescottIce) by the way for your multiple replies I PM'd the one user who said she took one leaf out of each pack (22210 / 22425) to see what she thought of the change. As an Alternative maybe ATS has a comparable setup too.
I like the idea of adding the bag setup you are looking at too so I would like to still be able to eliminate the blocks, use the PMF Plates, Daystar Cradles and shims from the Pirate setup.
My front went from 23" to 27". I don't know if the poor condition of my OEM springs made the ride lower than stock and would not cause as much of a correction over a less compromised stock setup. 4" is a significant amount of change to a family car, I don't know if you intend to keep your running boards, upgrade them to something that will allow for easier entry, or if your family all has 36"+ inseams... but diminutive or mobility-restricted people will face an additional challenge with the added height. Try to keep from using the steering wheel to leverage yourself into the cab, it will result in premature wear on the column, not to mention your lower back if you are of a certain vintage.
As we've discussed, my rear end did not come out level, or even raked - it appears (could be an optical illusion, but it looks "off" regardless) that the rear is in a slight negative rake. The math says it should result in 4" on both ends, but there are clearly some individual irregularities that seem to make the amount of resultant lift somewhat of a variable.
As far as I know, the jury is still out on the bags being added to the PMF upper plates - I don't know of anyone who has completed an installation. Hopefully someone who has done it will answer up. I have the AirLift 88340s on order (internal jounce) so I should be able to share some data hopefully by the end of next week. Through some actual math and some guesstimation, it looks like the plate levels (stock vs. PMF) result in about a 2" difference - removing a ~2" block, raising the plate height by ~1" (plate now on top of the leaf pack, but with a shorter leaf stack), and adding a longer spring resulting in the overall lift. I could get closer to an accurate number if I had some measurements between a stock jounce bumper and the stock tang with a stock suspension, but I don't have that data. Part of the "spend $400 and see how it goes" method. The cradles take up an inch, so if those are in place, I'm guessing I'll wind up with around an inch of gained travel before the airbag begins to take weight.
Correcting rake could come in several forms: keeping some pressure on the bags, so long as it doesn't negatively effect ride; a recurve of the rear springs; adding a zero-rate spring (essentially, a block) which may require anti-wrap compensation; or adding the inevitable winch and heavy-duty bumper up front. Obviously, my initial path will be to try the bag pressure first, probably the winch/bumper next, and if all is not well by then, the recurve. I'm hoping to not have to go down the block/traction bar path. A shackle inversion/hanger relocation is laborious and results in a minimum of ~2", which would be an overcorrection for my configuration.
I never tested the new springs with the old brake lines to see if they would be of sufficient length - I just saw it as an opportunity to replace and upgrade 17 year old rubber brake lines. My sense is on the front it would have been straining them at lock with all the leaves, the back may have been okay without but it wasn't worth the risk to me.
I don't have any idea what will fit and won't fit under the ProComp path - other than my Falken WildPeak 285/75-18's (34.8" diameter) on ProComp alloys make it with no issues. I did just pick up some fairly decent King Ranch 18's, I'll be doing that swap soon but I expect no changes in fitment.
My parts list looks a little different than what Pirate settled on. I'm having difficulty finding my parts spreadsheet or I'd rattle off what I used; if I find it, I'll post it. I would by no means recommend my choices over his, though, as I think my selections came before he vetted all the possible combinations. I know my rear u-bolts could be a little longer, and my shocks are different than what you have listed above (at least the rears are for certain).
Your buddy may be referring to shaft misalignment resulting in vibrations caused by removing the block - this is corrected by the degreed shims. Otherwise, I can't think of a reason that removing the block would cause any vibration. I have not experienced it, and I don't recall others with the ProComp setup complaining of this issue.
Any questions, let me know and I will try to answer.
"As far as I know, the jury is still out on the bags being added to the PMF upper plates - I don't know of anyone who has completed an installation. Hopefully someone who has done it will answer up." I'm running this set up with Firestone Air bags and the PMF plates. Somewhere around here I have a post with pictures. Bottom line they work great.
I have noticed a few times on this thread that you guys mention wheel diameter and clearance...I’m having trouble understanding what rim diameter has to do with clearance? The overall width and diameter of the tire is what affects clearance. A 33” tire is 33” no matter if it’s mounted on a 15” wheel or a 24” wheel. Backspacing/offset of the wheel and tire width and diameter are the only factors that determines if you rub or not.
I’m at about 4.5” lift over stock in the front and have 305/75R15’s (a little over 35” diameter) on 10x18” wheels with 3.25” offset and still had a little rub on rear fender well liner. I used stainless wire to hold them back and no more rub.
"As far as I know, the jury is still out on the bags being added to the PMF upper plates - I don't know of anyone who has completed an installation. Hopefully someone who has done it will answer up." I'm running this set up with Firestone Air bags and the PMF plates. Somewhere around here I have a post with pictures. Bottom line they work great.
Ah, I never saw the completion of your project, I think we were doing similar things around the same time but I was a couple steps behind you. I didn't do the bags last summer as I didn't need to tow anything then, but July will see some service with construction equipment.
I have noticed a few times on this thread that you guys mention wheel diameter and clearance...I’m having trouble understanding what rim diameter has to do with clearance? The overall width and diameter of the tire is what affects clearance. A 33” tire is 33” no matter if it’s mounted on a 15” wheel or a 24” wheel. Backspacing/offset of the wheel and tire width and diameter are the only factors that determines if you rub or not.
I’m at about 4.5” lift over stock in the front and have 305/75R15’s (a little over 35” diameter) on 10x18” wheels with 3.25” offset and still had a little rub on rear fender well liner. I used stainless wire to hold them back and no more rub.
But a 305/75 on a 15" wheel is NOT the same size as a 305/75 on a 24" wheel. Not everyone looks up the specs of their metric-measured tires to find diameter (a value not directly stated in metric notation), they're just hoping someone else has used their intended setup and says "yeah, it fits fine on my truck".
If the OP had posted that he wanted to fit "34.1's" under his truck, someone inevitably would have asked what wheel size and metric tire combination would have yielded that overall diameter and this would be a discussion on why people don't just post their wheel/tire combination. For some, 'a little over 35" diameter' would not tell them what tire size you are using so that they could safely duplicate your setup.
I'm sure it made perfect sense to somebody to label tires in millimeters, combine that with wheel sizes measured in inches, and not directly specify the overall diameter of the actual product, instead leaving that to a mathematical formula involving percentages of one of the other variables that is based on a different system of measurement. Maybe someday they could explain themselves to the world. I'm more a fan of the old-school inch tire measurements, back when you could actually tell the relevant dimensions of the tire in one single measurement system from what was printed on the sidewall.
Ah, I never saw the completion of your project, I think we were doing similar things around the same time but I was a couple steps behind you. I didn't do the bags last summer as I didn't need to tow anything then, but July will see some service with construction equipment.
I'll search for your thread.
Her ya go! I still haven't added the base as Pirate suggested, however I haven't really been on any really rough roads either.
Her ya go! I still haven't added the base as Pirate suggested, however I haven't really been on any really rough roads either.
Did you have to lower your top mount at all? I have Firestone bags and procomp springs going in soon... I am planning on getting the Daystar cradles . Not sure about the pmf top plates. They are well made-no argument there- but the current lower mount I have still may work.
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I PM'd the one user who said she took one leaf out of each pack (22210 / 22425) to see what she thought of the change. As an Alternative maybe ATS has a comparable setup too. 
