Another rude person, what happened to; "you need to be nicer in here?"

I might call those people to ask about bedding but I'm the OP and nobody would believe the answer. I doubt if you would be candid either now.

 

1. It's not that brakes don't work if you don't bed them in, it's just that they work better & have fewer problems if you do bed them in.

2. The same soft material doesn't stay on the rotor surface for the life of the pads (and rotors). The transfer layer is constantly getting abraded & laid down.

3. Some people misdiagnose rotors as being warped when the problem is often in fact uneven deposit of pad material on the rotor surface.

4. Brakes don't only work on friction between the rotor surface & the pad, adhesion/stiction between the pad & the pad material deposited on the disk also plays a part.

5. It's funny how all the brake companies with all their mechanical & chemical engineers, metallurgists and testers, together with millions of dollars in R&D and theory, practical experiments & facts to support that theory all agree. And yet EXv10 with zero theory or substantiated facts or experimentation in a controlled environment with repeatable results, only 1 variable changed at a time, control group etc. can boldly assert otherwise, simply because he believes it so. Of course, everyone is entitled to their own opinion. It's just that without any real theory or controlled environment practical testing, and mounds of evidence to the contrary, it's obviously not an informed opinion that is likely to attract many supporters.

6. Here is another link from Essex Parts, a reseller for AP Racing brakes that caters primarily to the pro and amateur auto racing markets:
Essex - Learning Center - Know Brakes 1: How to Bed-in Brake Pads and Rotors

 

Very well stated. The links I posted stated all of this. Glad that you were able to put it into words. Hope it helps others understand that the REST OF THE WORLD BELIEVES AND UNDERSTANDS that bedding-in brakes is necessary (oops, sorry that was sarcastic).

 

I never said I knew it for a fact, again; this is a learning thread. I will read your link.

 

I read your link and saw the movie but that's about racing and who said anything about that? This forum is about Excursion trucks on the road and why would anyone want to go to the trouble to do that for a temporary brake experience? You can't tell me that coating on the rotor is permanent. It seems you guys will do anything to evade the issue.

 

Very well said for racing but who's racing? Come on tread lightly. Someone should call a brake shop and see what they say, they are the experts, they do hundreds of brake jobs for normal driving, and yes you are sarcastic.

 

Well, racing provides trickle down technology. While most X owners may not care that their X now stops in, say, only 130 feet, instead of say, 140 feet, that doesn't mean there isn't an improvement or benefit, and in some cases, in abnormal scenarios, it may make a real difference e.g. managing to stop in time without hitting a pedestrian or ramming into the back of another vehicle. Also, how many people do you know that have replaced their pads & rotors because of 'warped rotors'? I believe in many cases the vibration / less effective braking is down to an uneven pad deposit transfer layer, which potentially could have been avoided if the proper recommended bed-in procedure was followed.

Buahaha, I trust the guys in the local brake shop as being experts about brakes as much as I trust the guys in the local tire shop as being experts about tires. Invariably guys at the local brake shop (I never get any work done there), tell me my brakes need replacing when in fact they have plenty of life left. Why? Cos they hear the squealing, and assume that my pads are worn down & the brake pad backing pad is now rubbing metal-on-metal on the rotor, when the noise is in fact the metallic carbon kevlar composite in the race pads I use on my sport compact car. No disrespect, but the majority of guys in the local brake shop or tire store are minimally trained average Joes catering to the average consumer.

I have one other point to make: if all the brake companies with all their millions of dollars in R&D and testing claim there is a benefit (and have the facts to back up their claims), and the bed-in procedure requires minimal effort & time on the part of the consumer, why wouldn't one follow the recommended brake pad bed-in procedure?

 

So far all I am seeing on the bedding-in process is a racing trick which involves jamming on the brakes at high speed enough times to melt a pad with a certain composition onto a rotor face. I wasn't aware of this procedure because I have a drag racing background but it surely doesn't apply to this thread and I surely won't be doing it before driving my car every morning, lol.
So enough of the engineers with the microscopes and all the superstitions, I am a believer in; put the brakes in and drive it.

 

Actually, it isn't 'jamming on the brakes', but smoothly & progressively applying them. Also, in general, unless there are unusual circumstances, you only need to perform the bed-in process once when the brake pads are new, in order to burn off the pad mould release compound and the resins.

If you don't mind a higher susceptibility to brake problems, and don't mind reduced braking performance, you are welcome not to believe or follow the brake pad bed-in procedure ... in fact, most consumers aren't (made) aware of it, and therefore don't follow the brake pad bed-in procedure, and for the most part things are just fine.

 

Brent, lemme ask you this: If you're willing to take input from a brake shop, who may or may not employ people who know about brakes (or the employees may just know how to change parts), why won't you accept the industry standard as stated by the various brake part manufacturers?

Bedding the pads doesn't cost the consumer any extra money to do, and the brake manufacturers don't make anything extra because they recommend the bedding procedure. So if there is no monetary "hidden" agenda, and in fact the whole imputes for bedding the brakes is consumer safety, why is it difficult to believe it helps?

Stewart

 

I, personally, have seen enough evidence that proves without a shadow of doubt to me that bedding-in is necessary and will continue to do it to my vehicles for another +30 years of mechanical experience.

I do believe that your original post did state some things that most of us would call myth right along with you and that is why no one is disputing those...yet. But the overwhelming majority of those that work in the industry of auto repair and the like have to wonder why you would even try to argue this point so emphatically. There appears to be no amount of evidence or opinion that will help you understand the theory behind it.

How about.... Brent you prove to us why it is not necessary?

 

I would only take the advice of the owner of the shop and from what I have seen so far this is a racers trick of laying down a temporary bed of melted brake pad on a rotor and after doing lots of brake jobs I see nothing but vehicles that stop just fine with normal driving. This thread isn't over and I am still waiting to see some hard facts that it is beneficial to the average vehicle to lay down this temporary bed of melted pad. I remember hearing claims of panic stops reducing the efficiency and integrity of the brakes and so for this abnormal bedding act makes no sense to me.

 

1. Covered to death above, but it's not a Myth
3. Actually it does. 5. it does help prevent balance issues. Vehicles see all sort of conditions. I had an issue with my rear driveshaft on my Bronco following the lift kit. I had match marked it prior to removal, but in my excitement to get her back on the road I put it 180 degrees out. Out of balance occurred. Flopped it back 180 degrees to the match marks and the out of balance went away. Seen tons of similar posts here on FTE over the past "few" years.

8. Funny. OEM must factor in every single driving condition they can imagine, and the make vehicle tuning that is safe for those conditions. You can tweak tuning for your individual conditions and you will see improvements. OEM is a best guess for everything. Adding/tweaking afterwards to optimize certainly does work when customizing to your specific area/needs





I've noticed several times here on FTE where's it's your way or the highway regarding anything you've set your mind on. I'm not perfect, but I'm willing to consider alternatives without being rude most times....well I try most days. Not sure if that's your intention most times, but your posts 99% come off with a "Superior" or "Condescending" theme whenever something differs from your view.

 

StopTech:

Brake Pad Bed-In

The all-important transfer layer
As stated above, the objective of the bed-in process is to deposit an even layer of brake pad material, or transfer layer , on the rubbing surface of the rotor disc. Note the emphasis on the word even, as uneven pad deposits on the rotor face are the number one, and almost exclusive cause of brake judder or vibration.
Let's say that again, just so there is no misunderstanding. Uneven pad deposits on the rotor face are the number one, and almost exclusive cause of brake judder or vibration.
It only takes a small amount of thickness variation, or TV, in the transfer layer (we're only talking a few ten thousandths of an inch here) to initiate brake vibration. While the impact of an uneven transfer layer is almost imperceptible at first, as the pad starts riding the high and low spots, more and more TV will be naturally generated until the vibration is much more evident. With prolonged exposure, the high spots can become hot spots and can actually change the metallurgy of the rotor in those areas, creating “hard” spots in the rotor face that are virtually impossible to remove.

Why You Should Bed in your Brake Pads & Rotors - YouTube

EBC:

EBC Brakes | Troubleshooting Information | Bedding in new brakes | Brake Noise / Squeal | Brake Vibration

1. How to bed in your new brakes
Drive your vehicle steadily within the first 300-400 miles of road use only using the brakes violently in case of emergency. During this time use the brakes lightly and intermittently to achieve a matching between the pad and rotor which we call break in or bed in.
The speed with which perfect brake in will have occurred depends on how often the brakes are used. If you drive on a freeway or motorway and do not use your brakes for miles at a time, break in periods will be much longer. Using the brakes with caution during their early life will extend their wear life and greatly reduce the chances of rotor vibration or “shimmying” as it is known in the States. During the bed in time the pads will only contact the disc on a limited area until tiny irregularities in machining or misalignment of the pads against the rotor have been removed. You can easily see how far you have progressed with bedding in your new brakes by looking through the wheel spokes and evaluating pad contact. The rotor should look shiny and smooth across its surfaces from outside to inside in all areas of the rotor. If you have purchased EBC gold zinc or black zinc coated sport slotted rotors, all of these coatings should have been visibly removed across the entire braking area of the rotor. Break in times on European vehicles is usually considerably longer than on Asian or US built vehicles because of the design of the brake system. European vehicles use a “taller” brake pad and may tend to contact on the outer edges of the rotor first and gradually contact more towards the centre of the axle over the first few hundred miles. After you are confident that the pads and discs are perfectly mated, use the brakes on a quiet and safe road 5-6 times at medium pressure bringing the car from 60mph to 10mph. Drive the vehicle for a few miles to allow the brakes to cool and repeat this procedure. During this final break in a brake odour will almost certainly appear and this is perfectly normal. This is known as green fade where the surface resins within the pad finally cure and burn off.

This bed in procedure is for STREET driving only. For race use bed in please see notes inside the package.

Noise Shims For Brake Pads - Bed In | EBC Brakes

New disc pads take some time to bed down, even if you are using new or turned rotors and during this time when the pad is bedding in to match exactly the geometry of the rotor the pads can make noise.

The normal way to minimise this is to add noise reduction shims onto the reverse side of the pads which dampens the vibration caused by the pad which will "Chatter" slightly when not seated perfectly.

This noise would go away after 300-500 miles but to avoid irritation noise shims are used to reduce this sound.

There is no safety issue when a pad makes these noises during bed in, it is merely a cosmetic problem of the new brakes.

At this point we also want to remind you that new brake pads do take some miles to bed down and that bed in times on worn or old rotors can be a lot longer and that DURING THIS BED IN PERIOD BRAKES WILL BE LESS EFFICIENT especially if rotor condition is poor. If you are not sure what is acceptable and not, please ask a professional mechanic as driving a car with poor brakes is just not a good idea at all.

Hawk:

Brake Pad Bed-In | Brake Pad Break-In | Hawk Brake Pad Bed-In

Brake Pad Bed-In is the process of creating a consistant and smooth contact patch between the brake pad and rotor. Many new brake pads leave what is called a transfer layer on the rotor so that instead of having rotor to pad contact the brake pad leaves a thin film of pad material that increases brake bite when you need to slow down. Leaving a good transfer layer during brake pad break-in is very important because it will give you superior brake pedal feel, less pad and rotor wear, and in many cases less brake noise.

During proper Brake Pad Break-In your brake rotors are also introduced to higher temperatures because the brake bed-in procedure progressivly increases brake temperatures instead of going from cold to hot to quickly. This procedure helps prepare the rotors for aggressive use. Quick changes in brake rotor temperature is one of the biggest causes of cracked rotors, and proper brake pad and rotor break-in along with proper driving techniques can avoid this costly mishap.

Hawk Performance Street Pad Bed-in Instructions - YouTube

They all state the same thing.

Stewart

 

How about; I already did.