What have you done to your truck today?
FTE Legend
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 32,875
Likes: 48
From: Northeast, OK
I'm glad you did. Might come in handy some time. And, while I'm sure all of Matt's posts are worthwhile, does this one apply to the discussion at hand? 
Old School Hot Rodder
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 6,472
Likes: 11
From: Exmore, VA
What have you done to your truck today?
Yes, it is the one on the starters.
Posting Guru
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 1,092
Likes: 2
From: Casa Grande
Just a thought, did Ford use the same ring gear tooth count on all there flywheels? I know in early model Jeeps they used different count ring gears with different tooth counts. You have to use the correct starter gear tooth count or it will do just what you seem to be going through. An incorrect starter/ring gear match will work for awhile but will kill the starter.
FTE Legend
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 32,875
Likes: 48
From: Northeast, OK
Just a thought, did Ford use the same ring gear tooth count on all there flywheels? I know in early model Jeeps they used different count ring gears with different tooth counts. You have to use the correct starter gear tooth count or it will do just what you seem to be going through. An incorrect starter/ring gear match will work for awhile but will kill the starter.
Anyway, both flywheels measure 15 9/16" in diameter and have the same tooth-count.
Old School Hot Rodder
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 6,472
Likes: 11
From: Exmore, VA
I know the old small blocks came with 157 and 164 tooth flywheels, the best break point was the number of bolts on the back of the block, 221, 260 and early 289s were 5 bolts and 157 tooth flywheels, late 289s, 302s and 351w & c are 6 bolt and most are 164 tooth, Hi-Po 289s seemed to have used the smaller flywheel.
pedant
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 23,576
Likes: 38
From: EXTREME southwest CT
Jim, can you measure the depth of the front edge of the ring gear teeth from the starter mounting face on the block plate? From what Matt has posted on the starters (Chris ought to make it a sticky) there are two different depths, your pinion should be able to engage fully, but the drive shouldn't hit the ring gear. Could you get a picture of the pinion wear pattern also, that would help decide if maybe you need the larger pinion.
I have .557-.558" from the face of the dust plate to the face of the ring gear.
The starter gear projects .503" from the face of the starter.
The starter gear has .494" that it can throw outward.
Here's a look at the teeth of the starter:
Sorry for the photo quality.
The camera in my phone is marginal, and the lens cover is dirty.
Post Fiend
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 8,521
Likes: 16
From: Lost
Had to change a tire on dad's truck today. One of the ancient rear tires developed a leak, thru a crack in the sidewall......
Sure am glad it didn't let go when I was running 60-65 on the highway yesterday......
Sure am glad it didn't let go when I was running 60-65 on the highway yesterday......
pedant
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 23,576
Likes: 38
From: EXTREME southwest CT
I'll add that this is a BBB Industries brand starter intended for a manual transmission with a 10 tooth pinion gear.
http://www.dbelectrical.com/p-1290-f...69-sa-795.aspx
http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-STARTER-...e6a0a7&vxp=mtr
This is one of the brands recommended by Archion.
http://www.dbelectrical.com/p-1290-f...69-sa-795.aspx
http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-STARTER-...e6a0a7&vxp=mtr
This is one of the brands recommended by Archion.
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Old School Hot Rodder
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 6,472
Likes: 11
From: Exmore, VA
Jim, what is the measurement from the actual mounting face of the starter? The gear looks like it is either barely engaging the ring gear, or is hitting it driving. Can you have someone push the clutch in while you see if the flywheel moves any?
pedant
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 23,576
Likes: 38
From: EXTREME southwest CT
Bill,
As you can see there is a raised piloting diameter that fits in the hole of the dust shield.
I will find some machined stock to build a bridge and make that measurement after dinner.
As you can see there is a raised piloting diameter that fits in the hole of the dust shield.
I will find some machined stock to build a bridge and make that measurement after dinner.
Old School Hot Rodder
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 6,472
Likes: 11
From: Exmore, VA
That's what I was talking about, because if it's over about .050" your going to have some interference running. Actually, just measure from the face of the casting down to the bolt area since you already measured the pinion retracted position. I'm beginning to think that the ring gear is set up like the 87 would have been.
Last edited by 85lebaront2; Mar 5, 2012 at 06:06 PM. Reason: Additional information.
pedant
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 23,576
Likes: 38
From: EXTREME southwest CT
Yeah, I know it's Chinese...
So, now I have to find a rebuilt BBB starter...
I can't find the Delco 336-1169 except on Amazon.
There's ONE Wilson 91-02-5861 on Ebay.
Time to eat before I'm in the doghouse....
Postmaster
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 4,575
Likes: 5
From: Broken Arrow , OK
If there is adifference in tooth count for application this is going to cause the wear and damage discussed. Improper gear timing is going to thrust the pinion gear outwards to the opposite side of where it mates to the ring gear.
When you say "breaks the snout off" . Do you mean the actual starter case where it is semi domed?
When you say "breaks the snout off" . Do you mean the actual starter case where it is semi domed?
pedant
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 23,576
Likes: 38
From: EXTREME southwest CT
That's what I was talking about, because if it's over about .050" your going to have some interference running. Actually, just measure from the face of the casting down to the bolt area since you already measured the pinion retracted position. I'm beginning to think that the ring gear is set up like the 87 would have been.