F250 lean bank 2, rich bank 1
 

Hello guys,
thanks in advance for your help and input.
I have a '01 f250 5.4 triton. I bought it with a bad motor and rebuilt it. Had the heads done, block hot tanked, cylinder bored, etc etc.
the truck runs great, fires right up every time, no noise indicating any issues. But idles pretty rough and has decreased power which worsens around 60mph. Engine seems to run smoothly at cruising speeds. When applying gas at say 60mph it is sluggish and if I apply enough gas for say a 10mph increase the tranny seems to downshift 2 gears about 3 or 4 seconds after pressing pedal but still lacks power. No codes pending or continuous. Have replaced spark plugs, coils, intake manifold gaskets, verified tick from each injector with one being replaced. 3 individual smoke tests have been done, when hot, warm and when cold with no leak found.
looked at live data and the only thing that stands out to me (noob to live data and how to interpret) is the fuel trims. Ltft Bank 2 +25%, bank 1 -20%, both numbers fluctuate with rpms. Stft for both banks range between -3 and +3. Ltft bank 2 goes towards normal with higher rpm but upon reach final cruise speed it goes right back up to +25% and sometimes to +23.44%. Bank 1 between +6% to +9% while driving. Shifting between neutral and directional gears seem to affect trims. Trims seem to have no deviations whether from cold start or after long drive.
fuel pressure 32psi with about 5psi leak down in 5 mins with koeo. Psi norm at idle rising with rpms but not going above about 40psi. I lose about 3psi when turning engine off.
o2 heater and o2 sensor monitors are incomplete. Found this out after buying innova 3160g code reader. I assume this was reset when I reset kam.
after kam reset ltft were norm with stft reading -20/+25 before returning to previous values


on a side note, observing my exhaust, there are sometimes little droplets that appear to be water and have no discernable smell with light black clouding found on outside of droplet. No black grey or blue smoke. No coolant loss. Oil leak from timing cover and oil pan. Oil in filler hole looks contaminated but oil in pan is clean. Filler hole appearance possibly due to very short trips to and from job. No engine knock, no ticking, rattling or anything. I am stumped.

thanks again

To me it sounds like you have a lazy injector on the driver's side. Also, your fuel PSI seem to change a bit too much, it should hold fairly steady. So there could be a fuel pump or fuel pressure regulator issue going on. Also yes, clearing codes will clear the memory regarding completed monitor tests.

I will redo pressure test to get absolute number as I was rushed the first time. The fuel injector cyl #8 has been an issue. It's been replaced twice. First time because I failed to find a nipped wire. I found and fixed broken wire. Just replaced injector 2 days ago and idle shake got worse. Seems to have less power now than when faulty injector was in place.
Original aus injector replaced with bwd 4 hole mfi injector then re replaced with aus. Aus in there now. After replacing injector ltft for bank 2 went from constant +25 to fluctuating between 23.44 and 25% at idle depending on selected gear. 23.44 in gear, 25 in park/neutral. I plan to have my exhaust pressure tested and leak tested. Other than exhaust and injectors I'm not sure where else to look. When it warms up again I am tearing the front end apart to fix oil leaks and will be checking timing as well. Timing was set right when I put it back together but I saw a video where the cam sprocket was loose and cause similar conditions. But I would think that if timing were the issue then fuel trims would not fluctuate as much.

can there be an issue with the fuel injectors even with the obvious tick sound from each one?

Obd
 

So I noticed something while I was playing with the scanner. The scanner shows the obd setup in live data. The scanner is showing that the truck has obd1. But my connector is obd2. The 5 monitors I have available according to scanner are ccm, fuel, misfire, o2 sensor and o2 heater. Am not able to view values from both o2s. Cannot see cyl head temp, oil pressure or volt reading from sensors except o2. Like I said previously, I am a noob to live data. I've used simple code readers that give out 3 digit codes. Not sure what I should be able to see, not sure if pcm has been changed.
thanks again guys

Don't have the answers for the drive-ability issues, but I can clear the table of a few items of concern you raised.

That's normal unless you happen to have a "California" emissions truck. See https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/1...bd1-obdll.html
Normal. They don't exist in the OBD1 calibration.
Normal. Water is a normal by-product of the combustion process. If your exhaust is completely warmed up, the water is emitted as vapor and you wouldn't see it. For a cold exhaust, it condenses into droplets.

Your fuel pressure readings don't concern me, they are within the range of "normal".

This would be appropriate.

Since you have one bank skewed lean and the other skewed rich, you probably have two separate faults in the vehicle.

Mode 6
 

I'm sorry guys for the numerous posts but I want to keep everyone updated. I learned how to read the misfire and o2 data from the obd monitor.

I see I have a misfire on cyl 3. So I'm assuming a leaking injector causing the negative ltft. I will be replacing the injector sometime this week. When doing so I will be replacing plug as well and will swap cyl 2 and 3 coils to see if the problem is solved or moves.
https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.for...2285a53bcb.jpg
Not sure how to interpret test value. What is the F?

and now I'm even more stumped for bank 2 being lean as there is no misfire on that bank.

here are my o2 readings
https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.for...c112cb168b.jpg
https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.for...eff1d5bed7.jpg
https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.for...560cdaac14.jpg
Apparently i forgot to take pic of second one on this one.

I also have data from $54 and $55.
https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.for...28c7981a1b.jpg
https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.for...67c11776f1.jpg

Let me know if any other info might help.
thanks again everyone for your input.

Values preceded by a $ sign are hexadecimal.

ok, that makes more sense. So looking at the photo below, the max value should be 4000 but is well above that if my hex conversion is correct, the test value reads 46,498. This is within the first 10 mins of runtime from warm start.
https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.for...43d61ce16d.jpg
You'll notice in the next photo that the value has increased again and the display is different. This was around 20 mins of runtime, 4 mins of this being actual drive time, the rest at idle in park. This is apparently the max value able to be shown, 65,535, as it no longer went any higher no matter how long it idled since last sync.
https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.for...6875e5fe4c.jpg
Even with this wildly high misfire count, the cyl 3 misfire from this morning has disappeared. All other tests show ok and with $0000 either min/max value and $0000 for test value.

I am about to take a 30 min driving trip with up to 15 mins idle time. Will check data at half way point and upon returning home.
If there is no misfire detected from any cyl then how can the misfire count be so high? Is this a timing issue being as the count is calculated using ckp?

You are misinterpreting the data presented. Test $56 is not an error or misfire count.

See relevant OBDII manual. available for download for free at https://www.motorcraftservice.com/freeresources/obd

ok, so I looked it over and understand it. But am still lost as to how to use all this info to diagnose my problem.
my problem simplified:
bad idle shake
lean bank 2, rich bank 1
fuel trims for bank 1 within norm while cruising
Ltft bank 2 goes to norm only during acceleration and deceleration, Ltft bank 2 lower in gear than while in neutral/park (automatic tranny)
loss of power which worsens with speed

No intake leaks
sound from injectors consistent with each other
new air filter plugs and cops

to do list:
exhaust pressure/leak tested
recheck each coil using in line tester
replace all plugs, again
Replace all coil boots
check for leaks and spray pattern of each injector
check fuel pressure while driving
check each cylinder for compression, highly doubt this is issue tho.

if problem is still not found or fixed I will be looking to get pcm flashed by stealership.

any ideas welcome. This is not a huge issue as no codes are being thrown so I'm assuming nothing detrimental is happening. But this 8 mpg is killing me!

Clear all codes with the scanner or by manually with the battery. Install 8 new motorcraft plugs, make sure you use acdelco or denso cop boots. If you need a new cop install motorcraft units.
also the I hector should be a motorcraft also not some brand from advanced auto or napa UNLESS it's a motorcraft

You said truck had a bad motor, what was wrong with it? If it had bad injectors or a miss that caused engine damage then the cat or cats on the truck could be clogged causing issues

yea, it had like 3 plug blowouts, one piston had a hole, guy at head shop said it was likely drilled when repairing one of the blowouts. The crank and cylinders were honed, bored or however you call it. Nothing was too bad. Other than the hole and blowouts, everything appeared normal wear and tear. And while the heads were being done I had the heli coil equivalent be done on remaining plug holes, just to avoid potential issue. Head shop and shop that did my block were reputable well known people so I have faith in the work done. Truck was originally fleet. I am the third owner. Truck was moderately maintained by 2nd owner. Just trusted wrong people to do plug repairs.
however I have had a lot of issues with cyl 8. Its blow out was not repaired using heli coil tech, it was the one that required some long a$# plug. It checks out tho and is done correctly now. Then I had a broken wire on the injector for cyl 8. Have had to replace injector once and plug twice since repairing break.
I dont know how long the injector went without working before I noticed it but the idle shake got worse since replacing it and the first couple of days it seemed to have less power but has since redeemed itself. But still lacks power. To me the exhaust kinda sounds idk, wet, I guess. But not always and I haven't found a pattern either.
and replacing the injector made very little difference to fuel trims.
hopefully performing all of my to do list in a day or 2 will give me a better idea, if not fix the issues altogether.

Check the cat.. Do you have one or 2. Start engine run for 15 seconds shut off feel exhaust cyl outlets for heat to see whats not running. will be cooler.

You have a clogged cat on the rich side.

I believe it's just one cat, I dont know tho. My manifolds hook into a y pipe which leads to one cat then on to the muffler. Not sure how to check cats but will research it. And am I checking for heat difference from each cyl or from each bank? I ran it this morning for 10 seconds and bank 1 seemed kinda cold still but it was below freezing so not putting much into it. It will 40 degrees tomorrow after work when I try it again.

If it's the cats then I'll have it cut out. Wont hurt anything anyway. No emmisions testing here

Alright, well I replaced all plugs and wiresets. Put bank 2 injectors in bank 1 and vice versa. While replacing cyl 6 plug I noticed it was not tight at all. Obvious problem. Coil wire had over heated, deformed the boot. I say it over heated because the end of the wire was brown instead of silver like the rest. And the porcelain spun independent of the plug. Plug tip looked fine tho.

here is cyl 1
https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.for...9b3a7a8617.jpg
I had a mishap with the oil and funnel, didn't realize it was this bad.
6 out of 8 plugs were in good shape. And the one that was broke looked good too really.
coil for cyl 8 had some moisture build up where the wire and boot connect to coil. Which I placed in cyl 5 for easy access if I need to replace it. Boot for cyl 7 looked like the plug had ran too hot on it too. So 6 and 7 both ran hot.
Fuel trims were really weird afterward. Bank 1 low stft normal ltft at idle, bank 2 normal stft high ltft at idle. Bank 1 values reverse while driving, bank 2 normal while driving. There is one injector I put back in on bank 2 that I meant to replace as it has started sound different and it came off of cyl 1. I will be replacing it tomorrow.

Small improvement in performance but still shakes at idle and lacks throttle response but runs smooth as can be when at cruising speeds. It even sounds smoother at an idle but has developed a tick that isn't coming from the valve covers. Tomorrow I will attempt to separate the cat from the exhaust just long enough to see if it makes any difference.
I will also be performing fuel rail pressure test at idle and while driving, as well as a 5 min koeo leak test. Also noticed that the electrical plugs on both the ect and cyl head temp sensors are broke off from the bolt. But they are still connected by the 2 little wires that run thru them. The ect I will replace tomorrow. I'm not sure if I can get to the other one with out removing the intake. If I can just take off the coolant crossover then I could get to it. The intake is the plastic replacement ordered online. I might can get to the sensor with a flex driver.
I swear I hear an air leak but 3 smoke test have reveal no leaks, sound cannot be heard from under the truck. Sounds to the naked ear like it is coming from the intake or the throttle body area but cannot pinpoint it. Hell maybe it's supposed to sound like that. I have nothing to compare it to. I will try to record it tomorrow. Putting a mechanics stethoscope on hoses, intake, throttle body, etc I can hear it most around where the throttle body elbow and from between intake and engine block. Throttle plate appears ok.

Ect and cht switched?
 

I replaced the ect, maf, and fuel pressure regulator. No improvement. But I ran into a potential issue. With my ect unplugged, my obd scanner still shows a temp of 190 give or take 10 degrees for the ect. But if I unplug the cht, the ect reading goes to -40.
is it possible I have these two plugs switched around? After replacing the ect, my dash temp gauge has quit working. Defective ect?

Update:
I checked the temp of the head and the coolant crossover then compared that to the temp on the obd reader. The crossover temp was spot on. So I swapped the connectors around but the connector that came off of the ect will not fit the cht. So that means this has been backwards since I bought it.

as far as replacing the cht, that will be 2 jobs as the TB elbow is kinda stuck. 2 of the fasteners just spin in place. So I plan to drill a hole into the side of the plastic to the screw. then place a piece of a nail in the hole and hold it tight using some vise grips then maybe the fastener will have something to grip so itll back out. That's my plan anyhow.

to skip this process, can I just tap into the ect wire and bypass the cht. My understanding is that the cht has no impact on fuel economy unless the head overheats. In the event it exceeds 265 degrees, the pcm shuts off 4 of 8 injectors. I'm afraid that with an open circuit it may cause an issue. The temp reading between the head and the crossover was only 10 degree difference.

I was pulling the connectors off of injectors just to see what it did to fuel trims. Disconnecting one injector affects fuel trim on both banks. So does the fuel injectors all fire at once or sequentially? All at once makes sense. The air leak affecting bank 2 causes the pcm to feed more fuel to both banks. This would cause rich on bank 1 not affected by an air leak and lean on bank 2. Or am I way off?

I seriously doubt there is an issue with my valves. I tested compression before putting engine back in truck. It has the cheap dorman intake on it. I am ordering a new OEM intake from Amazon. Will be here by next weekend. Dorman should explain it all lol.
While I have the intake off I'll be replacing the cht and re-torquing head bolts just for peace of mind.
this is my last post til intake is done unless something some up. Thanks everyone!!!

Ready to end it with a shotgun
 

Hey guys. Thank you for all your help this far. I got the intake in. Very happy with it. It's a ford intake, not a cheap knockoff. Having put it on the truck, the sound of the air leak is gone. Engine sounded great when I first started the truck, then it seemed like once it entered CL, it started running like crap again but worse. When it was first started the fuel trims read 3.1 for short and 0 for long. But before I got out of the driveway it was back lean b2, rich b1, longs still not set. Only had time to run it once. Oil Leak is coming from valve cover. The gasket may have moved on me. Or hopefully I just forgot to tighten a bolt. Also forgot to clamp down heater hose to crossover so engine got a little bit of spray. Reservoir is still full tho.

being that it ran fine til it entered CL , it points me to bad o2s but I'm positive I replaced one last year and the other one this month or last. Even if I didn't replace the one last year I swapped the o2s around and it made no change.
list of sensors replaced so far:
throttle position sensor
cylinder head temp sensor
engine coolant temp sensor
knock sensor
MAF
at least one o2 sensor (o2 monitors incomplete).

fuel injectors were swapped from bank to bank making zero difference. I will try swapping coils around this weekend. Fuel pressure test ok.
all hoses in good shape and I have added hose clamps to the end of every hose without one.
exhaust leak would cause a lean condition but not a rich condition.
If it were a timing issue wouldn't I get a code?
no coolant in oil or vice versa, no excessive pressure in coolant system, so head gaskets are good.
no air leaks from intake side. Possible exhaust leak at the flange connecting y pipe to exhaust manifold pipe, but wouldn't I be able to clearly hear that?
if my only cat were clogged, I'd get the same reading from both banks unless there was a bad air leak for one side for which I should be able to hear.
fuel delivery does not seem to be an issue. No problems with air intake.
maybe an issue with timing? when I did the timing I made sure my marks were all where they were supposed to be. Lined my links up accordingly. I cranked the engine multiple revolutions by hand to check for valve to cylinder contact.
please, if I have the wrong ideas, or have missed something, say something.
I plan to swap coils bank to bank, test both o2s with multimeter and do a compression test on each cyl. But if it were an issue with compression it would allow oil into the cylinders causing smoke from exhaust, and I have no smoke.
I'm clueless after this other than having the pcm flashed.

Hey Dave, I broke down and did a compression test. Bad news for me. Bank 2 is 150 with one bank being 155. Bank 1 is around 120 on all 4 cyls. What could be the cause of low compression on one side?

How about cam timing? 120 is weird.

that is what I'm hoping. I was going to do a compression leak down test but the one at harbor freight just didn't seem to be what I needed. The psi max was 100. Not really sure how to do it so taking it to a shop to have that done.

New thread started
 

Hey guys, being as how I know this is a compression issue I started a new thread that addresses that issue only. Please refer to the link below. Thanks

Low compression bank 1
https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/1576296-low-compression-on-bank-1-a.html