Rebuild or crate my 7.3??
 

So I have a 2001 7.3 250 crew cab. It's my first diesel I bought it and unfortunately I was unaware the engine is bad. The mechanics believe the case is cracked as pressure is building up in the oil pan and actually forcing oil back up and out of the dipstick. Anyway the truck has some after markets for performance and the mechanics say it was due to added hp the stock engine couldn't take it so I would like to put a performance engine in. The mechanics recommend black mamba but only a few seem to like them i was wondering what you guys would do my budget is 10k. If you could be as specific as possible I would appreciate it as I am not super mechanically inclined and trying to learn as much as possible. I would like the most hp for my $ but also want it to be a solid engine. I would really appreciate any information even if it's unrelated to the engine but other things I might be interested in looking into with this truck. Thank you in advance guys.

I would start by asking what your goals are.

Second, Black Mamba motors do not have a very good reputation, many claim it's marketing hype.

If you were looking to buy a complete drop in high horsepower motor, you might try swamps diesel, but they are pricey, 18k for a "competition motor" around 8k for a stock performance, and 6 for a Ford reman.

If you wanted to have yours built for high HP, I would suggest sourcing many of your parts through Clay at Riffraffdiesel.com

For instance, Factory Overhaul Kit - Standard Bore - Riffraff Diesel Performance and have the bowls cut and coated. Add some Forged Cryo'd Connecting Rods - Riffraff Diesel Performance and head studs, that will be a pretty solid build for most peoples builds HP wise.

All that said, if it were me, I would find a used craigslist or junkyard motor and swap it in, start off stock and build it up myself, learning about the motor how it works.

I can't think of a better answer and options than this based on the original post.....

If you can't get a decent CL or Junk yard motor I would think the $6K option with some choice parts would be another really solid option again depending on your goals. Obviously if you wanted a true high HP build then you were probably prepared to go deep into the bank account anyways....:)

With your budget I would focus more on building a solid engine, and then you can add power to it later with out having to worry. Most performance upgrades for this truck can be done with basic hand tools in your drive way.

Are you going for more of dedicated race or sled puller type build, or a dedicated heavy hauler, or are you trying to do a little of both?

The fact of the matter is, you can search for a lower mile pre 2001 running engine, which should get you forged rods. Price range? who knows...$1000-2000?

Or you can rebuild yours. I did one maybe 5-6 years ago, by the time it was in and running it was $4500. Rebuild kit for the block, rebuilt injects from Swamps, water pump, oil cooler....machine work, new oil pan.

I will be right around 3500-4000 after everything going into the "Zombieheart" rebuild.
That rebuild kit is a big hit... but if you get it through Clay, it is the most inclusive kit for the price you can get. (Injectors are factored into my build cost)

You could get lucky and find a junkyard that does not know what they have and almost steal a motor... the one I stuck in TXtinct was complete with injectors and turbo... and it was only 750$ with no core charge.

hey, welcome to the site! i would lean towards rebuilding what you've got. or shop around for a quick removal/replacement engine. mine needs work and i'm planning the rebuild path… good luck!

Or, you could look for a good 12v 5.9l...It makes 300hp really cheaply, often lasts 1000000 miles and gets fairly good gas mileage.

I would usually agree with you on this but it doesn't make much sense this time. Plus in a SD the mileage is about the same as a 7.3 by the time it's said and done.

You guys are over looking a big thing here.... If it's an automatic your engine budget gets chopped in half because you're going to have to upgrade that first other wise you'll be doing that next.

Also have you confirmed that your crank case vent is open/clear? Were all assuming that his mechanic is 7.3 inclined. Most of what is being said with his problem and cause isn't making sense to me one bit.

Ok guys thank you so much for all the input and information. I would like to go more of a rebuild route because I would like to learn more about my engine. Idk if the crank case is clear how would I go about doing that muself the mechanic I took it to specializes in 7.3. Supposedly. He did also recommend the mamba though. The tranny is already an upgraded ats stage 2. And I would like to build a high hp truck it isn't used alot for hauling and I have no desire for trailer pulls but it is used offroad quite a bit.

It's good you came here for advice. These guys will keep you on the right track. But I do have some thoughts to add in your decision making. We've seen this before. Guy buys a diesel, knows nothing about them, takes it to a shop, and they nickle and dime you to death. If you're lucky, they will do the job correctly, if you aren't, you will now have spent another 10 grand and it still won't be right. Just be careful, make sure the shop knows what they are doing, and their way around a 7.3.
You said they *believe* the case is cracked. Well it's good to have suspicions to narrow things down, but don't go replacing an engine just on a belief. Things need to be verified. If they can't verify a catastrophic problem then make them. It could be something much simpler. Just do your homework so they don't take you for a ride. This place will give you all the info you need so you know they are treating you right.
A $6000 engine will eat that $10,000 budget up when labor and fluids, and other incidentals are added.
Personally, for a very green person, and not knowing anything else about the condition of the truck or what you have in it, it might be worthwhile to dump it while it is still fresh to you and find a good runner.

Thank you and ya that's why I've been asking around everywhere what people think and I love this truck and honestly got taken on it I spent to much in it because I believed it to be a good running truck I'd never get near my money back. That being said I don't want to sell anyway. As far as labor goes I have several friends who are mechanically inclined and willing to help me in whatever I decide to do so no matter which route I chose I will do all the work myself. It will help me learn more about the truck. So what do I need to have them do to verify the case is cracked short of tearing the whole thing down is there a way to tell

If it is cracked, and the crack creates a leak path to the outside world, then yes.
You can try an oil dye.

Beyond that... not so much.

If you start down the path of disassembly to find the failure... pull the engine and put it on a stand. It will save you the headache of fighting with the heads, and all the other under hood clutter. And when the heads are off, and it is discovered you have broken piston rings/cylinder damage... it will have to come out anyway.

Due to the weight of one of these engines... dont skimp on cherry picker capacity. You need a 2ton crane due to the need for extending the boom. A 1ton picker extended to the halfway point is to close to capacity for me to attempt it. These monsters weigh in close to 1200# fully dressed.

Dont let anyone tell you a Harbor Freight 2ton crane is not up to the task.
They work just fine. At this point i have almost lost count of how many i have pulled with mine.

Yes this is my first diesel and even with the loss of power it still is a beast it will run 15s even with the lift and 35s o love this and am excited to learn more about it and get it running properly. Also I am located in western colorado.

I second what Keith said. I have seen it for years from back when I worked at a speed shop, guys see a vehicle (in this case a truck), have no real mechanical knowledge or experience and want the biggest cam. HP, carb, injectors, etc... they can get. They have no concept as to how parts function together and basically build something that will never come close to their perception they have envisioned. When you don't have the skills or knowledge building anything becomes expensive. Post your location as stated (so someone can offer help), do a lot of research and then make a decision. I know a lot of people post HP numbers and desires but this engine is designed to be a torque monster, torque is what moves a vehicle not HP. If you are rich (which it does not sound like you are) then break out the "Buckzooka" and stockpile ammo because that is the road you will going down without skills and knowledge. I wish you the best of luck but don't jump in the deep end of the pool if you can't swim.

As to the blow-by issue with your truck there are a several things that could cause that some of which could be a bad valve, bad rings, bad piston, etc... Take it somewhere else of better yet start building experience, study here and elsewhere and then do the work yourself.

Good luck.

I'm in grand junction colorado also I do understand that I could really muck myself and my truck up if I'm not careful. Which is why I've been asking so many questions before I begin to do anything. So what are the things that I could check for myself that could be causing blowback?

Lots of things cause blowby. Tell us about it. Maybe I missed it, but tell us how it runs. What caused you to think something is wrong? What exactly did the shop say? How does it start when cold? How does it start when hot? If possible, expand on the oil blowing out the dipstick. Do you have lots of crackcase pressure when you remove the fill cap on the valve cover?

Any other issues? Have you had the valve covers off yet to visually inspect the injector o-rings, glow pugs, rocker arms, and push rods?

I totally get it if you just want to go for it all and build an engine right off the bat no matter what. Actually that would be cheaper than building it a little at a time. But it is also a much more intense learning curve. But a nice stock engine will do pretty good for ya with some single shots and tuning. You might not need that race engine. It's all going to depend on your desires and pocketbook.

There's a couple guys on another forum who are kind of going through where you are starting from and in the end they realized too late they kept throwing good money after bad and were in it even deeper. Not saying that's the case here, just saying again...be careful! Having help to do the labor yourself is a great start!

The truck starts great cold or hot but blows out lots of purple grey smoke even when idling. If I take of the oil refill lid you can feel pressure coming up and even see some grey smoke coming out. If I run down the road the dipstick ends up getting pushed up about an inch and oil starts bubbling out. I have to constantly fill new oil and no i haven't done anything to the truck yet the mechanic said he came to that conclusion because that's the only thing that made sense. I initially knew there was a problem because while driving the truck home it died and after getting out the entire left side was covered in oil. I had accelerated and when I did it blew all the oil out the dipstick.

I took my truck to a guy who has a solid rep around here for power strokes. especially the 7.3 and 6.0. After talking to him I got the warm and fuzzy because he knew what he was talking about. After I got my truck back I started finding several things that suggested he didn't put as much time into my truck as he should have to fix it properly. I've had to go back and re fix everything he did. I've found a couple of pens with his business name on it, and a couple of tools through out the engine compartment, and things that were broken and put back together with zip ties and duct tape.

Wow, that throws all kind of flags up for me, did you test drive the truck prior to purchase? Just asking.

Just about everything that Keith and I mentioned can be checked by you. It just takes some time invested in reading, watching videos, and acquiring tools to perform the test. There are several members in CO so may be someone can come to your assistance as long as you fridge is filled with beer :-drink.

Is your doghouse (left valve cover breather to turbo intake hose set-up) hooked up properly or even at all. Problem could be it is not and that is pressurizing your crankcase. Check simple things first.

Your new on here so pictures might not work very easy but they would tell us if things are normal under the hood or not. Give it a try.

Ok and yes I did test drive but I bought it in Arizona and drove it back to Colorado I was about 300 miles into the trip when it did it. And I will try some pics I just had knee surgery so taking new ones may be difficult but I think I have some on my phone.

That is good news to me, that it took 300 miles to do what it did. It could be something as simple as the breather system plugged or partially plugged and that driving it for that long of time allowed crankcase pressure to build to the point of spewing. My guess it it will be something simple, but very rarely I try to be an optimist.

Good luck on the knee recovery.

I suggest a compression test.
Without hard measurements, all we can really do is guess.

Blowby does NOT have "lots" of causes.
It has 1.
It is a descriptive name for a symptom.
The symptom is combustion gasses(read compression) blowing by the rings/piston.

The causes for the symptom include:

Broken rings
Cylinder wear/scoring
Incorrect ring gap
Hole/crack in a piston

And thats about it.

To give you an idea how bad what you describe sounds...

The engine I'm currently rebuilding had less than 100psi compression when tested.
Pretty much a dead hole.

The blowby was pretty intense... but it was not enough to blow the dipstick out of its home.


What a coincidence that it too was an Arizona truck before it moved to Texas.

Ok so is everyone under the agreement that a compression test is first?

Chris,
A defective crankcase vent system will also cause crankcase pressure to build as the air below the pistons gets compressed on the downstroke and needs to have escape routes and when it doesn't it finds its own through seals, past rings and hopefully in this case out the dipstick tube. Your examples are also causes but I am trying to be optimistic and if he has a dead hole I hope he would feel it.

Hows the rebuild coming?

I have yet to do anything as I am still bedridden from surgery but does anyone have a link to the tools I need to run a compression test

So far pretty smooth. Im in money saving mode to purchase all the parts going into the build.


An easy way to check for a blocked ccv on a stock configured engine would be simply remove the intake boot from the filter box to the adapter mounted on the bracket and then remove the boot between adapter and turbo. With the engine running (having taken care to remove anything from the area the compressor wheel might try to consume) look at the quirky little doo dad sticking up from the bottom, and see if you see blowby gasses/smoke exiting said port.

For compression testing i use a harbor freight diesel compression test kit(the cheap red case one) and a harbor freight grease hose as a glow plug port adapter. To connect the grease hose to the compression test rig quick connect... i used a 1/8npt to 1/8npt female coupler. So dont get the grease hose with the big fitting...

You are right, I should have said crankcase pressurizing. I suspect everyone knew what I meant.

Let me as a question to everyone though...has anyone ever seen a glow plug break to where there's nothing left of it in the hole? Just wondering.

When the truck is cool and just started, flip the oil cap upside-down on the fill spout and see if it hovers or pops up. Check your Crank Case Ventilation system. You can have a kinked hose, a plugged "filter", or a modification to it that prevents it from venting altogether (a used modded truck can have weird stuff done to it). This could be a simple matter of the oil dipstick tube or the dipstick itself being the wrong length, and overfilling is taking place. How does the degas bottle look - any oil, fuel, or soot in there?

A compression and leak-down test is in order for a mystery engine, before making your next plan. I did one thing right from the beginning - I bought a scan tool and the Ford Powertrain Control and Emission Diagnostics (PC/ED) manual. I didn't do a compression test until all of my mods were in, and that was a mistake - but I lucked out and my compression is "in the green".

Yes.
But its very rare. And i have not seen one so bad the electrode was gone from the top of the glow plug... its possible tho. Overtorqueing them can cause some interesting stresses on the electrode down hole for sure. I read a thread over on powerstroke.org, or the army about it where combined with combustion pressures, heat, and the overtorque caused the electrode to corkscrew. Wild stuff.

Chris.....think about how the GP seals and how the electrode feeds through the casting. There is a taper at the bottom of the steel hex/thread....IMO the only way for the electrode to corkscrew is an oversized electrode or an undersized hole that the electrode fits through.

I dont know where you see a taper...
I just measured one to see...

Below the machined flats... the o.d. of the plug body is .320"

Below the threads... it is also .320".

Sitting across a 1-2-3 block... the measurement remains the same from below the threads - to the end of the body.
http://i1282.photobucket.com/albums/...ps4rrk5eoc.jpg

Right at the junction of the electrode and the main body...see the 45 degree chamfer? That, I believe, is the sealing surface....btw, your 1-2-3 block is NASTY!

Lol... yes it is nasty... but it is not "mine". Most of the "shop" blocks are pretty nasty, and really only used for setting fixtures, and taking rough guide measurements. Being about 30 miles from the open waters of The Gulf makes fighting corrosion a constant battle. My blocks hardly ever come out of the box, and when they do... they get cleaned before going back in.
I keep my indicating stuff with lots of dessicant packs but i still have to fight rust.

Are you talking about the top side(connector side) or the port side?

The "beveled edge" at the bottom of the port side of the body is turned, not crimped.
The seal is(visible) at the top of the body, and doubles as an insulator.

Still digging for that other thread about the plugs getting twisted.

Looking at your picture, right hand side, directly above the second hole in the 1-2-3...that junction.....body to the getting hot part.

When I swapped my injectors i decided to do the glow plugs too. All came out nice and easy except for one. It took a little more effort but it broke loose, and after it was unscrewed and I removed the socket, all I had was the steel body. When I looked at the hole it came out of, there was the electrode sticking out. I couldn't get it out myself and had to take it to a mech (the reputable one mentioned in my previous post) to pull the head off and tap it out from the bottom side.

Not to be a total smart a$$ but that ain't no 45 degree angle and that would be the 4th hole as we read left to right, sorry couldn't resist. My attempt to be funny on only one cup of coffee. I knew what you meant.

I will have to go look at one in the garage but I was under the belief that it sealed at the threads but I am probably full of crap. It would make sense that it could corkscrew if it sealed at the bottom. The bottom could gall to the head and as the top was turned the body corkscrewed (twist), so it was probably from poor installation and not the engine that caused the one to twist up.

Ya'll are not getting what im trying to describe...
The bodies of the "twisted" plugs im talking about were straight...
The electrodes were twisted, twirrled, or corkscrew-ed. (Whichever may be the correct discriptive term...)

Still digging to find the pictures...
If i cant... i will destroy one of these two to replicate what i saw and snap a picture.

I got it now, just the heating element tip.