5.4 randomly misfiring
 

Hey guys, great looking forum you have here. I have a 2005 5.4 F-150 I am working on for a customer and am looking for a second opinion as to what the problem with it might be. First off it came to me on a rollback because the owner tried to replace his plugs after he noticed it missing and of course broke one off. So after I extracted the plug from #8 cylinder and installed a new plug I cranked the truck and it was idling very rough and had a terrible miss around 1200rpm. I pulled the codes and got several misfire codes and ignition coil faults on #5,6 and 7 cylinder. Popped in 3 known good coils in these 3 cylinders with no difference. On Mode 6 on my diagnostic software you could watch the misfire count steadily increase on #7 and every now and then there would be a single misfire on #5 and 6. It also had several codes for O2 sensors biased, stuck rich on that bank. Well since it had a brand new plug and coil, I popped an injector in #7 and havent had a single misfire on it since and it also started idling alot better and all the O2 codes went away. The problem I am having now is #5, 6 and now 8 will randomly misfire, sometimes build up a steady count on one of them, sometimes just skip around between them. The truck has brand new plugs in all 8 and new coils on this bank also. The truck has 115,000 on it and does have some cam phaser noise on the bank causing the problem, but its not too terribly bad, I have heard alot worse. My problem is something on that bank only as the passenger side bank is fine. I am wanting to say cam phaser now since this is the side with the noise. I have changed them before but have just experienced the noise, never one running like this because of it. Possibly jumped time a little? Has anyone seen this? Any ideas would be appreciated. Sorry for the extremely long post.

What kind of plugs did you use in the truck? These trucks seem to fight with everything except Motorcraft plugs. Also when installing the new ones don't forget the anti-seize on the plug ends.

I really don't think the cam phasers are causing the idle problem you are having. I haven't read about them doing that before so would start to look else where first.

What else has been done to the truck recently? Fuel filter, throttle body, and etc...

He replaced 7 of them with Motorcrafts and broke the last one he had left and thats when it was brought to me and I extracted the plug and replaced it with the Motorcraft he had left. He is an elderly man and said he has never had any trouble out of the truck until he noticing it missing and he figured it needed a set of plugs, and so the story goes from there.

Also I see a pretty good bit of these trucks and do the typical injectors and coils and alot of the cam phasers before the local Ford dealers started taking care of them. Also i go around to alot of shops and peoples houses extracting plugs so I pretty familiar with these I have just never seen one act like this.

what about the VCT solenoid

If it makes you feel better, I just changed my plugs also. Right off the the back I had cyl4 misfire. Turns out I got a bad plug. The first thing I would do is replace the new plugs with some newer ones and go from there. Swap the coils, put the ones that are on the bank that's misfiring and put them on the other side of the motor. If you just go changing a bunch of things you may as well just be throwing away money. 4 new plugs only set me back 38 dollars and I only needed the one. But well worth the investment.

Make sure he used the correct Motorcraft plugs. I had a similar problem on an Expedition 2006 5.4L 3V. The wrong motorcraft plugs were used. Replaced using the correct SP507 plug and misfiring stopped.

I had my 2006 F150 5.4 put on the scanner P0018 the computer indicated that Bank 2 had a cam problem .. idling ruff and mech said it was out ot of timing on that side.. any advise out there..

2007 5.4 misfire
 

I've been reading all the posts I can about this problem and have noticed that no one has a definite answer to this problem. Plugs, coils, boots, head leaks etc. and the problem still seems to come back with everyone.
I really appreciate all the posts but is there one answer to this very common problem to fix it. We all have the same symptoms and there has to be one answer to this.
Please help, just totally frustrated!

The most common cause of misfires is worn spark plugs. When the plugs are worn the gap is wider so it takes more voltage to jump the gap. The coil can only put out so much so if the required voltage is greater than what the coil can produce then it doesn't fire. Sometimes the voltage finds it's way outside the plug between the plug and boot and the spark goes outside the plug to ground. This causes carbon to form where the spark passed and the carbon acts like a conductor so now there are 2 paths for the spark, through and around the plug. Electricity take the path of least resistance so when you are cruising in overdrive at 45 mph then the PCM leans the mixture and advances the timing for best fuel economy but what that does is makes it harder for the spark to go where it needs to so it goes outside the plug and boom, misfire.

If there is any leakage of spark, it can be identified easily by the carbon tracking down the plug, I had a cam phaser fail and gave me random misfire codes only, be careful you have noise on that bank and thats not a good thing. Dave

I'm ready to scream about this problem! I live in a smaller town (16,000) and know 5 other guys with very similar problems with the same truck. Terrible misfiring going on, and has for years. I have a '06 and have replaced the plugs 4 times now, with coil packs here and there. Tonight we're going to replace all of the coil packs in hopes that changes it. Should we hit new plugs, boots, and injectors as well just in case? I don't want to keep throwing away money.

For those that aren't aware of the problem, aside from the rough idle when going 55 mph on the highway, around 1200 rpm going up a slight incline, or hill..it starts chugging bad. Shutting overdrive off, and kicking down helps, but is terrible on the fuel economy. At one point it plugged my left cat, so I had a guy cut the cats off, burn the crap out, and put them back on. Will be getting new cats now, as it sounds like crap.

Either way, this was supposed to be my "buy it new, own it forever" truck, and if I can't get this problem fixed this summer I'm dumping it.

Also, has Ford corrected this in their 08-09 trucks? Reason I ask is I have a brand new topper, and it will fit those years. So effing sick of this recurring problem!! Any help is appreciated. I know there's a ton of us out there with this problem, and if I call my local Ford garage they play dumb like it's news to them. Yeah right.

Thanks in advance!

thoughts
 

I am having the same problem. When I connect my code reader and clear the codes it seems to correct. This indicates to me it's electronic. Going to do some more research. I have a K and N air filter. Will clean that first and will check fuel filter

Nope, the Misfire issue is still present in my 2008 F250 with the 5.4l 3-valve. It just started at 162k miles., but I had bought the truck used 2k miles ago. It ran like new for 2k miles I owned it, then I noticed a slight stumble (cyl missing) while slowly pulling out from a stop sign. It cleared up as soon as the engine got to 1500-2000rpm. But it set a code. P0304 - CYL 4 MISFIRE.
I'm gonna try swapping coil packs to see if misfire moves. If the misfire does not move, I'll test the injector before attempting pulling the plugs. I gotta be ready and borrow an extractor before I try that. :-arrgh

@David7.3 I agree that close inspection of misfiring plugs can reveal carbon tracking down the ceramic (if the arching over is occurring above the threads). But, your handle prompted me to take a look-see at your profile. Aren't you on the wrong forum here?

HOW I SOLVED 5.4 RAMDOM MISFIRES
 

@70f100longbed you are absolutely on top of the ROOT problem. May I respectfully expand on what you have offered.


The operational design of the 5.4 places MAXIMUM strain on proper ignition under low RPM light load driving conditions. EVERYTHING must be PERFECT to achieve ignition for the reasons noted by @70f100longbed. The PCM has Cams commanded at max retard, timing advance is pushing the upper limit, very lean fuel mixtures. [these factors are not arbitrary by Ford. (Retard is for emission - cooling combustion to reduce NOx) (timing advanced is for power - must be reduced quickly upon detection of labor knock) (lean mixture is to meet federal MPG standards - even requiring swirl control butterflies in the intake runners to better atomize injector spray in otherwise slow moving air). The net effect of all this requires EVERYTHING IN THE IGNITION SYSTEM to function perfectly. MANY DIYers (and mechanics alike) focus on one or two common ignition parts (Plugs & COPS) - and fail to consider other important factors - some very simple to eliminate / or avoid.


ONE BIG ONE that I believe everyone misses is the "disruptive effect" of the carbon buildup in the spark plug hole around the spark plug barrel - and the almost TOTAL failure to consider it. FOR TWO (2) REASONS as follows:


#1) Carbon deposits get packed around the plug barren real damn tight - enough to twist the plug into on removal. If it will twist the plug apart on removal - - HOW THEN CAN ONE EXPECT TO SCREW A NEW PLUG BACK IN THAT SAME HOLE WITHOUT DAMAGING THE SNOUT ON THE NEW PLUG OR "FRACTURING" THE CERAMIC INSULATION INSIDE THE PLUG AS YOU FORCE IT INTO A HOLE THAT IS ALREADY TOO TIGHT?" One member here reports it to take 35 ft lbs of torque to twist a plug apart in his bench vice. See: https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/1...l#post11051271 . I believe MANY MANY people have caused fractures in new plugs internally while installing them. Then under ideal conditions the plug will fire correctly, but in lean or stressed conditions will arc over internally because, as @70f100longbed correctly notes, electricity will take the path of least resistance. I've seen mechanics remove AND reinstall new plugs with an impact wrench. And on my first plug change on this vehicle (5 broke on removal), I 'torqued' new plugs in with a ratchet - with them "screeching" like a rusty lug nut! - and I still had random misfires, just on different cylinders!


#2) The Carbon deposits making contact with the plug barrel inside the cylinder head ALTERS THE PLUGS HEAT RANGE. Because heat is conducted rapidly out of the plug 'snout' into the head and water jackets. A "colder" plug sparks at a lower voltage (thus producing a less robust spark) because resistance of the electrode metal increases with temperature. This is the reason for the long barrel design of the spark plug, and the reason the 5.4l is 'persnickety' about spark plugs. Also, a lean fuel/air mixtures require higher voltage potentials to ionize the air in the spark gap to create a path for the spark to traverse (like lightning). Of course as @70f100longbed also correctly notes the gap on old plugs increases - requiring higher voltage to arc. These higher voltages INCREASE the chances for arc over in an internal fracture resulting from improper plug installation, a carbon trail from prior arcing, or poorly insulated boot (for lack of dielectric grease), or poor contact in boot spring, or low current in the COP primary from a poor contact or high resistance or corroded connection in the primary circuit.

IMHO removal of this carbon buildup should be a part of every spark plug change on a 5.4. It is certainly inexpensive and TOO simple to do, with a wire thread brush or piece of coat hanger wire an a chemical soaked rag, while changing plugs. It's so simple - it sounds stupid. Perhaps this is why its never been mentioned in a TSB. But I have done this on my last two plug changes and haven't had a random misfire in over 100,000 miles.


That's after I fought the frustrating problem for a couple of years over 60K miles and tried changing plugs TWICE, replaced a bunch of(finally ALL) COPs and spent 200 hrs labor swapping, changing parts, talking to mechanics, reading posts and basically being all pissed off. The last two plug changes though, while I have ALL plugs out I rotate the engine to TDC on each cylinder in turn and clean the carbon out of the hole "REAL WELL".


For the reasons under item #2 above, I do NOT USE Anti-seize on the barrel. BUT I run only about 50K miles on the plugs now. Changing them in this way, they will screw in all the way to the seat by finger. Then torque properly and finish up in a clean meticulous way - using dielectric grease on boots - and burnish / stretch boot springs and clean COP primary electrical connectors with spray electrical contact cleaner and use dielectric grease on those plugs too. I have had NO misfire problems on my '04 5.4L since I've been doing plug changes in this manner.

I recently had my plugs changed at a local shop. 2004 5.4 with 172,000. Plugs changed at 90,000. Had the misfire at 45-50 in OD and had replaced several COP but still had the misfire. Shop had it for two days. Shop replaced and additional COP and when I picked it up it barely ran. Shop could not figure it out. Had eight codes. Can't remember them all. They thought the cam phaser was bad. I took it to the dealer and told them the story. They figured it out in two hours. Two broken plugs and another bad COP. I guess the local shop over tightened the plugs. Local shop gave me half my money back. I was researching new engines. So happy to have everything working correctly.

F150Torqued has posted this in the past, and it simply makes too much sense to ignore.

He offers a more-than-plausible (I'd go as far as to say "likely") explanation for the seemingly high rate of recurrence IMMEDIATELY after plugs changes, including the mysterious introduction of misfires on OTHER cylinders that weren't misfiring before the change, but are throwing codes immediately after.

I mean, if carbon is strong enough to hold a galactic badass like Han Solo, doesn't it makes sense that it would get in the way of some threaded aluminum??

As difficult a pill as it is to swallow, many of us are stuffing precious new Motorcraft plugs into carbon-polluted threads (and the carbon is going to win, just like it did with the old plugs) and breaking them on installation.

I would love to hear peoples input on my version of the misfire issue.

I have had my 2006 F150 since 2011. I bought it with 91K and paid someone to tune it right away.

About a year later, the #4 cylinder had a misfire. Since I didn't have the coils replaced. I assumed it was just a Coil going bad after 110K, and replaced it.

About a year after that the same Coil went bad again. I asked a few Mechanics about it, but just assumed I had bought a bad Coil.

Last July, the truck started running rough again, and again showed a misfire on #4.
I decided to just go global on the issue. I had read in several places online while the plugs will function to 100K, it is better to replace all plugs at 50K to help with the breaking plug issue. So I bought all new plugs, and all new Coils to solve the issue once and for all.

I read about forcing the plugs in and I didn't experience the rusty hole issue at all. I was able to screw the plugs in within a turn without any tools other than a deepwell socket, and my fingers. The truck ran better, and got better mileage than ever for a while.

Recently the mileage dove, and then I started feeling the shimmy of missing. I checked and again #4 is showing as an intermittent misfire.

I was thinking since my issues have always been on #4 that something was shorting out the Coils. I have tried switching the #4, and the #3, and the issue moves with the Coil.

Is there anyway a bad wire in the harness could cause this?

Ford sucks
 

I am picking my piece of crap up from the shop today, I will be trading it in for a Nissan or Chevy . I can usually always find and fix a problem, this time I had to take it to a shop they wanted to charge 680 bucks to do what I had already done, so they said spark plugs was the issue but I had just replaced them 2 months ago. This is the ugliest sounding motor, worst running truck with dead end problem solving, still not fixed they said they need more time with it after 2days with it.:-X09:-arrgh never own a ford again.. Aaaaahhhhhh 2 months of trouble shooting and no one can fix it..

Not trying to be a smart ass, but if your profile is correct this is a 2015 model with 125,000 to 149,000 on it - AND this is your first post. May I assume you haven't had serious enough problems to come to the forum before, and why did you post -- in a 2004 to 2008 Forum.


Not sure that 'Ford' is the precious problem here.

My truck is misfiring right now also...under light load at freeway speeds it does it quite a bit, if i turn overdrive off it helps a little...thought it might be the spark plugs or coil packs. but when i took it apart this weekend and looked at it. my common rail valve is no good. my truck is running lean and not getting enough fuel, it wont open up all the way and allow enough fuel in when needed. sometimes itll misfire pretty bad and sometime barely at all, and its all on one side.

Question on methodoing for cleaning
 

My question is, what specific method do you use to clean the carbon out of the hole? Tools, rags, solutions or whatever combination do you use? My truck has developed a mis-fire, described like so many others, and I want to do this right.


The operational design of the 5.4 places MAXIMUM strain on proper ignition under low RPM light load driving conditions. EVERYTHING must be PERFECT to achieve ignition for the reasons noted by @70f100longbed. The PCM has Cams commanded at max retard, timing advance is pushing the upper limit, very lean fuel mixtures. [these factors are not arbitrary by Ford. (Retard is for emission - cooling combustion to reduce NOx) (timing advanced is for power - must be reduced quickly upon detection of labor knock) (lean mixture is to meet federal MPG standards - even requiring swirl control butterflies in the intake runners to better atomize injector spray in otherwise slow moving air). The net effect of all this requires EVERYTHING IN THE IGNITION SYSTEM to function perfectly. MANY DIYers (and mechanics alike) focus on one or two common ignition parts (Plugs & COPS) - and fail to consider other important factors - some very simple to eliminate / or avoid.


ONE BIG ONE that I believe everyone misses is the "disruptive effect" of the carbon buildup in the spark plug hole around the spark plug barrel - and the almost TOTAL failure to consider it. FOR TWO (2) REASONS as follows:


#1) Carbon deposits get packed around the plug barren real damn tight - enough to twist the plug into on removal. If it will twist the plug apart on removal - - HOW THEN CAN ONE EXPECT TO SCREW A NEW PLUG BACK IN THAT SAME HOLE WITHOUT DAMAGING THE SNOUT ON THE NEW PLUG OR "FRACTURING" THE CERAMIC INSULATION INSIDE THE PLUG AS YOU FORCE IT INTO A HOLE THAT IS ALREADY TOO TIGHT?" One member here reports it to take 35 ft lbs of torque to twist a plug apart in his bench vice. See: https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/1...l#post11051271 . I believe MANY MANY people have caused fractures in new plugs internally while installing them. Then under ideal conditions the plug will fire correctly, but in lean or stressed conditions will arc over internally because, as @70f100longbed correctly notes, electricity will take the path of least resistance. I've seen mechanics remove AND reinstall new plugs with an impact wrench. And on my first plug change on this vehicle (5 broke on removal), I 'torqued' new plugs in with a ratchet - with them "screeching" like a rusty lug nut! - and I still had random misfires, just on different cylinders!


#2) The Carbon deposits making contact with the plug barrel inside the cylinder head ALTERS THE PLUGS HEAT RANGE. Because heat is conducted rapidly out of the plug 'snout' into the head and water jackets. A "colder" plug sparks at a lower voltage (thus producing a less robust spark) because resistance of the electrode metal increases with temperature. This is the reason for the long barrel design of the spark plug, and the reason the 5.4l is 'persnickety' about spark plugs. Also, a lean fuel/air mixtures require higher voltage potentials to ionize the air in the spark gap to create a path for the spark to traverse (like lightning). Of course as @70f100longbed also correctly notes the gap on old plugs increases - requiring higher voltage to arc. These higher voltages INCREASE the chances for arc over in an internal fracture resulting from improper plug installation, a carbon trail from prior arcing, or poorly insulated boot (for lack of dielectric grease), or poor contact in boot spring, or low current in the COP primary from a poor contact or high resistance or corroded connection in the primary circuit.

IMHO removal of this carbon buildup should be a part of every spark plug change on a 5.4. It is certainly inexpensive and TOO simple to do, with a wire thread brush or piece of coat hanger wire an a chemical soaked rag, while changing plugs. It's so simple - it sounds stupid. Perhaps this is why its never been mentioned in a TSB. But I have done this on my last two plug changes and haven't had a random misfire in over 100,000 miles.


That's after I fought the frustrating problem for a couple of years over 60K miles and tried changing plugs TWICE, replaced a bunch of(finally ALL) COPs and spent 200 hrs labor swapping, changing parts, talking to mechanics, reading posts and basically being all pissed off. The last two plug changes though, while I have ALL plugs out I rotate the engine to TDC on each cylinder in turn and clean the carbon out of the hole "REAL WELL".


For the reasons under item #2 above, I do NOT USE Anti-seize on the barrel. BUT I run only about 50K miles on the plugs now. Changing them in this way, they will screw in all the way to the seat by finger. Then torque properly and finish up in a clean meticulous way - using dielectric grease on boots - and burnish / stretch boot springs and clean COP primary electrical connectors with spray electrical contact cleaner and use dielectric grease on those plugs too. I have had NO misfire problems on my '04 5.4L since I've been doing plug changes in this manner.[/QUOTE]

Kinda' like this
 

The first time, mine was so bad - [they screached like a rusty lug nut on removal]. I bought a $19.99 set of steel thread brushes, (similar to bottle brushes) with a "T" handle, from Harbor Freight. I took one about the size my little finger and ran it IN/OUT land AROUND & AROUND in the spark plug holes - "beyond the threaded part" until I could insert rag soaked with carburator cleaner and it would come back perfectly clean!! If not, I'd burnish the **** out of that hole again with the bottle brush.

If you use this method - ** CAUTION ** - rotate the engine so that each cylinder your working on is TDC to avoid the problem this forum member encountered !!! https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/1...lp-piease.html I would HATE to be responsible for a fellow forum member having this experience.

Since I change plugs now at about 50K intervals, I have been able to do it with B12 Chemtool on a little piece of rag. I fashioned a coat hanger with a small loop around a piece of white rag, and stuck that in my battery powered drill. After about 30 seconds of running that thing in there - it won't even discolor a new piece of rag.

My scanner still reports zero misfires in the last 10 driving cycles - even before and after my recent timing chain / phaser job @ 212,000 miles. Of course, on each plug change I observe all the other good practices, like NO greasy finger prints on PLUG ceramic anodes, good boots, dielectric grease, good solid connections in COP springs and primary plug and proper plug torque.

I hope this helps and would like your feedback if you try it on your truck and it does "in-fact" do the trick. :-drink

There is a lot of great information in here and although it's an old thread, I hope I get a comment. I have an 01 Expedition with a 5.4 and getting a miss on cylinder 3. Now after pulling a crappy plug and replacing it I noticed that the spring from the coil has an over abundance of slop between it and the metal conductor on the top of the plug. Is this considered normal?

I would say definitely NOT. I'm not an expert on your '01 Triton, but I know all present day engines place maximum strain on the ignition systems. They keep bumping compression up, leaning mixtures out more and more, adding emissions stuff, retarding valve timing to accomplish EGR effect, and raising spark voltage. All this means everything needs to be in good clean, proper order to succeed in delivering ignition each and every time.


I try to keep greasy finger prints OFF plug ceramic and COP's, stretch the spring you're talking about and make sure it is free of tarnish or corrosion and in good contact with plug anode, replace old boots, use dielectric grease on boots and COP connectors, and make sure all electrical harness connections are clean (with electrical spray cleaner), use dielectric grease and plug on good & solid. Failing to do any one of these "can" potentially result in random misfires - when there is NOTHING wrong with any one of the components.


:-X22

Learning slowly, with that since Ford dealers are few and far between I found one and purchased proper plugs and the difference is undeniable when comparing to NGK and other manufacturers plugs. I even showed the Ford parts girl the electrode difference. I had tried the NGK plug with a new coil and miss was still present but with the Motorcraft plug, the miss was non existent but then the electrode is twice the size on the Motorcraft plug! So when I'm feeling better I will change all the rest too!! Will post picture later of the plug difference when I'm feeling better but my truck is running with no misses.

@Nitemare2
You mention you are dealing with an '01 Expedition - confirmed by your signature block.
I do not wish to give you misleading information. Much of what I have written in this thread, and others, regarding misfires has specifically to do with the unique design of the 2004 - 2008 cylinder head and spark plug. As I've noted, I'm no expert on your 01. Although I stand by my comments in post#26, I am certain yours doesn't share the special "nightmare" (No pun intended) problem 2004-2008 models do with spark plugs.


http://www.devoll.com/Remote_Images/...plug_image.jpg

The long shank on our plugs as pictured above extends down into a deep well in the cylinder head. That hole becomes clogged with carbon deposits (top plug in the photo) so tightly it alters the "heat range" of the plug and often times twists the shank off in the cylinder head when plugs are removed. That leads to necessity of using a special removal tool on these models, and I believe frequently leads to internal fracturing damage to new plugs on re-installation. As discussed in Post #16 https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/1...l#post15819897 and Post #23 above.

It deals mostly with getting the carbon buildup out of the hole as part of a plug change job on 2004-2008 models.
Thank goodness - yours doesn't share this "Nightmare".

F150Torqued, I really want to Thank you out where everyone else can see. I've often wondered about what you and others were talking about and thanks to the picture you posted you've made it extremely clear as to the headaches I've missed by buying my 01. You've gone through an extremely detailed explanation as to how you go about changing your plugs and to be honest, I'm not sure I could do the same. One thing is certain however, I'd still be driving a Ford Truck. After all the money scams the others went through to get rid of their debt and the impending lawsuits over ignition related deaths, I'm unsure why people still purchase their vehicles but maybe it's just me. I purchased my 01 with 340k km on it and was shocked that the recall over engine fires had never been fixed on it in the 13 years it was owned by others but my local Ford dealer took care of it right away at no charge. My big issue lately was replacement plugs by other manufacturers had electrodes so small compared to the Motomaster plugs, I was blown away. Once replaced my missing issues cleared up immediately. Obviously different from yours, I am sorry about this long winded reply but something happen after my serious MVA and long winded is all I do now. Again Thanks for your reply.

i dont think so

Question on cleaning out carbon
 

When cleaning out the carbon on each cylinder how do you keep carbon a bunch from falling down into the cylinder? Just make sure that whatever cylinder im working on is TDC? Im pretty sure that i have a majorly excessive amount of carbon buildup so i just want to know whats the safest route.

@Datslab


On subsequent plug changes (after my initial revelation about this issue), I have used a slightly different procedure that I think works just fine - is somewhat safer - and probably would have worked fine on my initial cleaning also.


I take a piece of coat hanger wire about 12 inches long and crimp a piece of rag on one end. Stick it in my battery powered drill, soak the rag with carb cleaner and run it in and out of the spark plug hole - repeatedly replacing the rag and re-soaking it - until the rag comes back clean. If I go in too far, it's no problem to giggle it around and get the rag to come back through the hole from the bottom. Seems less likely that carbon dust (or worse - bristles from the bottle brush) will get into the cylinder. And definitely would not want to loose a bottle brush in there.


I am still a big believer that this theory is REAL. The OBDII system maintains a counter that counts the number of drive cycles and is cleared when DTC's are cleared AND by any misfire occurring after the first 200 engine revolutions (PID 16DC, MFF_0_CNT). I monitor it with Torque Pro. With 225,000 miles on my 2004 now, this counter frequently gets up to 50 to 75 run cycles on my truck without a single misfire.


Hope you can achieve just as good of results.

I know its difficult to swallow but clean that carbon out
 

I am a faithful follower of f150torqued theory of carbon build up . It has done me well at 175 k I don't fight misfires anymore .
All these posts of receiving bad new plugs are usually nothing more than damaging them forcing them in thru that carbon . They don't have to be noisy going in to damage them .
Lets face it you already changed plugs and it takes a lot to get to all of them so cleaning that nozzle area out is painful to go back in .
These misfires start at around 60 k from new . Then the carbon is fully built up . The tsb where you used anti seize helped because it lubed the carbon up and some plugs didn't crack going in and the anti sieze stopped more carbon build up plus they had you soak the plug with carb cleaner which softened the carbon . . But the real answer is to clean that nozzle are out with carb cleaner . I have been using champions with no trouble but since they redesigned plugs I will go with sp515's .
Only go 60k on plugs . No need to use anti seize on tips of redesigned plugs it can cause other problems if not done right .
Keep your hands clean , don't contaminate boots /plugs .
Change all your boots when you change plugs . I don't care what the old ones look like . They may not hold 30,000 volts . Heat/age damages them .
Clean all connectors on cops .
use dielectric grease on each end of new boots .
Don't put dielectric grease on electrical connections, it is a non- conductor .
Use a rubber sparkplug socket on plugs , be gentle .
Start your plugs by your fingers , if you cleaned it out it will go in all the way with a good feel .
Torgue your new plugs in with a torque wrench not by feel, 25 foot pounds .
You are dealing with a different animal here all must be perfect for it to run right --this ain't no flat head engine .

What i was told by a mechanic
 

I brought this issue up with a mechanic that works at my company and he warned me of the danger of using carb cleaner or using any tool to clean out carbon buildup on said cylinders. I was told that i could easily vapor lock my engine. Im not a mechanic just a diyer with years of experience and i just wanted to know your input on this situation. His advice was high octane fuel with a cleaning additive. Im convinced that he doesnt really grasp the amount of buildup that these engines are notoriously known for. So is it safe to say hes way wrong?

Well...
Anything can be done the wrong WAY --- producing poor, or bad results. But no-one has suggested you "POUR" carb cleaner down an open spark plug hole - and even if you did the result would certainly NOT be "vapor lock", but "hydro-lock" if you screwed the spark plug back in and tried to crank it with a cylinder FULL of carb cleaner (or any liquid). If you left the spark plug out and hit the starter - it would just make a hell of a mess with the stuff blown out the hole. SO, It's safe to say he is way wrong. I'm 70+ years and have vivid memory of Flat Head ford engines. They would overheat and 'vapor lock' when fuel in the fuel line 'boiled' (vaporized) from block heat and just became steam in the fuel line ---- That's what a "vapor lock" is - just like running out of fuel. And it hasn't happened to a modern engine for a long time.


You are correct that he probably doesn't grasp the amount of buildup that these engines experience - if the carbon is 'packed' around the extended part of the plug so tight as to literally 'twist' the nose OFF on removal. Once the plug (and tip if necessary) is removed, you are NOT going to hurt anything by crimping a cleaner-soaked piece of rag on a wire and run it in & out of that hole until you have 'mopped' all the carbon out of the extended hole. And a new plug will screw all the way to the seat by finger.


Just show your friend an SP515 plug and tell him we're only cleaning carbon buildup out of the hole that snout fits down into.


Good luck.

Ford tsb calls for soaking original bad plugs with a little carb cleaner to get past plug threads
 

It evaporates fairly fast but of course give it a little time, It would only last in real cold conditions . . Make a coat hanger loop with a crimped soaked pieced rag to do the cleaning . Hydro locked has been discussed and tossed out . You could turn the motor over with plugs out to clear it if you accidentally got a lot in there with some rags to catch the blow by . And of course you would not use it on a very hot engine .
No I don't think he realizes the severe carbon problem around the tip of the plug on this engine . If you haven't lived with one you can't see it .
Take all prudent care and you will see the carbon dissolve . Don't do it without plenty of ventilation . But it's like working with gas lines on your engine . No sparks or closed in areas . When I pull injectors gas is everywhere on the rags I put around it .
I live in fl so I am outside working all the time or under a carport .My temps are always high enough to evaporate stuff quickly .
No fuel additive has a chance of getting this out, forget seafoam and all that , I like techron but not for this .

Thanks a lot
 

Well i finally got my parts in to get this job finished. Thanks for all the great info and such speedy responses. I think without this thread i wouldve torn into a lot more before i finally found the real issue at hand. Thanks again

Now what
 

Well i cleaned every single hole for the plugs and got a lot of carbon out and replaced them with brand new plugs and i put new ignition coils on. My truck was running great but after about half an hour later the same misfires occured only at idle though and its especially bad when its in gear. Any ideas on what i should try next?

Geeez, really sorry to hear that. Guess I have to start with some dumb questions (no insult or accusations intended).


You replace (new) boots/springs with those COPs?
Brand of plugs, COPs?
Did you perform a battery disconnect relearn after completing the plug change?
Do you have any Codes you can report ---- After capturing freeze frame data?
Any COP electrical plugs that have broken clips?


Before making any wild suggestions - I would like to know these things.

Picture of homemade cleaner tool?
 

Could you show a picture of the homemade tool you use to clean out the carbon in the cylinder plug where the long shaft of the plug extends?