99 7.3 psd will not start without a shot of starter fluid
 

ok i have a 99 7.3l turbo diesel and i have recently been having alot of trouble getting it started. i know that starter fluid is bad for diesel so before everyone tells me..i already know..i have checked the hpop..not the problem, gpr, not the problem, glowplugs...not the problem. i know i have a slight fuel leak from the check valve that drains the water from the fuel..could it just be low fuel pressure? but when i shoot it with starting fluid or wd-40 it starts right up and runs perfect. o..and the check engine light randomly pops on only while im driving tho and especially when i punch the pedal...please helppp!!

Codes
 

If the CEL comes on, you should have some codes stored. Know anyone with Auto Engenuity or a code reader that can pull your codes? that should be a good starting point.

i know a guy with a snap on code reader the really good one but he wont help me out...a normal code reader like the ones at autozone wont pull up anything

Reader
 

Yeah, teh cheap code readers can't handle our trucks. Where are you located, might be a member near by that could read your codes?

Sounds like your HPOP reservoir is leaking back into the crankcase. I believe the standpipe that regulates the height of oil in the res has an o ring at it's base, and once that starts leaking, over the period of a few hours your oil will drain back causing excessive cranking times for the lo press oil pump to build the supply back up. I'm guessing that once you shut it down, it'll start right back up right? Not sure how much you know about hte 7.3's but the injectors are oil press fired, which is why with no oil, no start. It's not the best design, but it's better in that you CAN'T blow the engine from losing oil pressure like yo ucan with just about any other engine in the world.

BTW- welcome to FTE!! Stick around a while and you'll go faster (probably due to a lighter wallet LOL)

no after i shut it down no matter if its hot or not it will not start at all without a shot of starter fluid. i even checked the oil level in the hpop, it was about an inch from the top, i recapped it and cranked it for about 15-25 seconds and then checked the oil level and it was still exactly the same...i let it sit for a few hours and checked it again...still the same level

BTW i live near akron ohio in a little town called lodi

This is a good "No Start" trouble shooting guide.
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Originally posted by Dave (Golfer) on PSN 01-20-2010 Thanks Dave

its nevvvvver the oil pump...seriously.

I see sooooooooooooooo many guys (dealerships included) that see "no ICP" or some ICP codes in a scantool...and toss HPOP's on truck after truck...when it is either an IPR or an injector (poppet valve) issue.

If you hook up the scantool, and monitor ICP (psi) while cranking...you'll see IPR% (duty cycle) climb & climb 15% key on..20, 30, 40, 55%, higher..the increase in IPR% means that the PCM is requesting ICP pressure to increase...

so ALSO watch ICP(psi) and if it comes up to only 180-250psi or so and stays there...then it's the IPR hung open (bypassing oil back to the oil pan through the front cover) such that only minimal psi can be made.

If the ICP is VERY low...like under 60psi...then it could be injector (poppets) pissing oil (under the VC's)..which is typical for injector with more than 180-200k miles.

if ICP climbs above 550-600..then it will probably climb much higher (15-1800+) and it is most likely going to be an electrical issue.

If his scantool will not connect then its a PCM or chip issue (remove the chip if you have one & haven't removed it yet)

if the scantool connects AND you have >600ICP then look at the datastream for a RPM reading.

if the scantool picks up an RPM signal and it seems accurate....then the CPS is good.

If no RPM on the scantool, replace CPS.

If you have RPM (on scantool, not just on dash)...AND have ICP >600, then run an (key on, eng off) injector "buzz test"...

the buzz test is nothing more than a continuity test from the PCM, through the IDM, and to & from each injector solenoid.

LISTEN to each inj buzz....do they all sound the same? nice & crisp?

if the test passes (and you audibly heard them all)...then wiring is good, IDM is good, HPOP is good...CPS is good...then it could be a fuel issue. gasoline, water, etc...

I wouldn't mention it if I haven't seen it myself numerous times...

any chance this no start began with 10-20miles after a fillup?

holler if you need help troubleshooting. take care~ Dave
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Hears some good info also:

7.3L Powerstroke Starting Requirements:
Battery voltage a minimum of 10.5 volts while cranking
RPM at least 100 while cranking. If no tach movement suspect CPS
If you have a scan tool ICP should be 500 PSI ± 25 PSI and fuel
pulse width should be 1 to 6 milliseconds.

The above requirements assume the following:

Correct oil level, oil type and pressure
Correct type of fuel
Correct fuel pressure (53 PSI per Ford spec)
Sufficient air supply (clean air filter & unobstructed intake)
Proper oil level in HPOP reservoir (1 to ¾ inch from top)
Proper glow plug relay and glow plug operation (in cold weather)
Proper injection timing (PCM controlled)

the truck has been hard to start ever since i bought it, it used to only have a problem starting when the engine was completely cooled down. i think it started dooing THIS shortley after i changed the oil actually...which was maybe a month after i changed the glow plugs...i know that i have the correct oil and correct amount in it, so i dont really think that has anything to do with this though. if it were an injector wouldnt i notice it while i was driving?when i crank it over the RPMs are at around 200..its getting fuel, and the battery is giving it plenty of juice. could a clogged catalityc converter be the problem? could something have happened when i changed the glow plugs??

"THIS shortley after i changed the oil actually...which was maybe a month after i changed the glow plugs.."

I would have to go through the glow plug circuitry again.

When it is running, how does it run? Rough? smooth? Is your WTS light coming on? How long have you been starting it with starting fluid? Is there any smoke coming from the tail pipe when you crank it over?

Before you go any further you need to get those codes read.

I agree Dave with out it all we can do is guess............

I'm sure I read here at some time that it was not a good idea to use starter fluid in a diesel.

ok i have a 99 7.3l turbo diesel and i have recently been having alot of trouble getting it started. i know that starter fluid is bad for diesel so before everyone tells me..i already know..


he knows LOL....

Glow plugs may be good or bad, but with 80* air temps, that shouldn't be an issue right now. You're either losing oil pressure or fuel pressure. Pull the codes and see what hints they give.

Starting fluid is specifically for diesels, it's just a bad idea in our PSD's because of the glow plugs acting as an ignition source.

find out how much fuel pressure you have at the fuel bowl. You will need to at least put a temporary mechanical gauge at the fuel bowl to check the pressure. Mine did the same thing and found that all the fuel was returning to tank and not making any pressure at the fuel bowl. When I blocked the return line with a little piece of balled up rag it went from 0psi to 30psi and started immediatly.

My 2 cents worth.

hmm..really?? i had no idea!! wow seriously!? im pretty sure i said that in the very first message i posted!!...

...ill get the codes pulled tomorrow at the HP diesel shop down the street and see where it goes from there...ill keep you posted and ask more questions if need be..thanks for the help guys!

so chances are...if i replace the water drainoff valve thats leaking, my fuel pressure will probally increase and may start?? because its leaking pretty bad...i just cant seem to find a damn parts store that sells anything for my truck!! can you point me in the direction of a good...CHEAP..or at least reasonably priced parts store? please and thanks

Look through some of the guy's signatures and look for guzzle's website. He's the PSD o-ring guru.

That sounds like your problem.

Here you go.
Separator Valve Rebuild
O-ring Guide & Reference Page
Replacement O-rings for Ford Diesel Engines

Well, you definitely want to get new o-rings in there, HOWEVER, you better have a leak running down your driveway to substantiate that much of a pressure and volume loss. It'll run on 30 psi (not good for the injectors though) but the fuel pump IIRC is pushing about 360gph, which would equate to a 6 gal a minute flow coming from your fuel filter. I might be wrong on the numbers, but either way it'll be a REAL bad leak to ake the truck not run. I second a faulty fuel pressure regulator.

My original post "find out how much fuel pressure you have at the fuel bowl. You will need to at least put a temporary mechanical gauge at the fuel bowl to check the pressure. Mine did the same thing and found that all the fuel was returning to tank and not making any pressure at the fuel bowl. When I blocked the return line with a little piece of balled up rag it went from 0psi to 30psi and started immediatly."

so chances are...if i replace the water drainoff valve thats leaking, my fuel pressure will probally increase and may start?? because its leaking pretty bad...i just cant seem to find a damn parts store that sells anything for my truck!! can you point me in the direction of a good...CHEAP..or at least reasonably priced parts store? please and thanks

Originall posted by mongo75 "Well, you definitely want to get new o-rings in there, HOWEVER, you better have a leak running down your driveway to substantiate that much of a pressure and volume loss. It'll run on 30 psi (not good for the injectors though) but the fuel pump IIRC is pushing about 360gph, which would equate to a 6 gal a minute flow coming from your fuel filter. I might be wrong on the numbers, but either way it'll be a REAL bad leak to ake the truck not run. I second a faulty fuel pressure regulator."

I was talking about the fuel returning to the tank because of a faulty fpr which is at the top right of the fuel bowl if your're standing in front looking at the engine. the drain valve at the fuel bowl would have to be leaking profusely to not get any pressure if the fpr is good.(you should fix that leak though) regardless of what's going on it would still be a good idea to check fuel pressure at the bowl to at least eliminate problems. May also be a faulty fuel pump or clogged screens in the tank which a pressure check would show. let us know what you find

dude , one squirt of zippo lighter fluid down the throat, and you can get in iand it will fire up without blowing the precombustion chambers. i already replace my high pressure oil pump and put new O-rings on my injectors, still screwed brother, if you come up with any thing good let me know marktwach@gmail.com

Fuel pressure is not your issue. Truck will start and run fine with 0 fuel pressure.

If I had to guess without any information...

You have a HPO issue, be it injector O rings, injectors or the HPOP/IPR...

Its not fuel related.

PRECOMBUSTION CHAMBERS?? WHAT!?!? Have you ever pulled a head off a 7.3? LOL- these are modern trucks, they don't have lenova cells anymore. It's just like a gas engine in there, except for the piston bowl and glow plug. What gets blown by using ether etc is your connecting rod, they can bend under an early load.

ya...?
 

im pretty certain the precombustion chamber were only existent in the 6.9 and 7.3 idi because of the indirect injection..natrally asspurated...am i right or wrong??

You dug up a 5 month old thread to add that?

ugh...

wooops sry
 

lol sry im not guna lie i never looked at the date just read the comment...was just searching around to enlighten myself on stuff i may not have seen before and got caught up with his comment

hahaha, i do that all the frickin' time, usually catch myself right before i post though!

So what's the harm of digging up an old thread? Better than starting a new one, IMO.

Thats all fine and dandy...

If you have SOMETHING to add... but when you add nothing but bring up a 5 month old thread...

Just sayin...

...with ya on that...

I don't believe I read thru this whole thread and wasted my time. The OP's problem was never solved from what I read. Let me find something that I can learn more of.

I'm with you Dwayne BUT...This is the classic case of someone who looks for help from members then for whatever reason, fails to complete the thread when/if he fixes the truck. To learn the most, there has to be a solution which solved the problem...without the OP giving that feedback to the board, the majority of the learning is lost.

Neal :-X18 in fantasyland: I wish that when a person had a problem and started a thread, they had to put up a $5 deposit that was refundable when the problem was solved and he posted the solution.

I know this is an old post (please don't kill the messenger), but was there a resolution on the problem? Did the Op sell the truck or fix it?

WHAT HAPPENED???? :confused:

I am having the same issue
 

I am new and not sure how to get help here, but I have the same issue with my 99 7.3 I have 6 codes that come up
P1690
P0381
P1212
P1247
P0470
P1211
Any help?

The last link in my signature... give it a click. Where are the scan tools you say? First link in my signature.

7.3 powerstroke no start without either
 

first time to post and i admit im lost..i have a 1996 f-350 with a 7.3l
im having the same issue with my truck it will not start without a shot
of brake clean.been doing this for about a week trying to get into a shop
i trust in my area to scan my codes.this started after a 40 mile run doing
75 mph...and by the way its got a e4od trans as well.always been kinda
rough to start when at operating temp but it would start.i use rotella 15w40
engine oil with a gallon of lucas because it makes me feel good not sure if
the truck likes it but it never says anything bad about it.i have replaced
one injector last may and it runs ok.seems to idle rough .i replaced the glow
plug relay today with high hopes . no better dont have any fuel leaks and
i dont see any oil in the intake valley.change my oil every 3k mabey over
kill but again makes me feel good.and the truck has 322k on it. help
oh and just in case it matters i added new motorcraft glow plugs and
harness at injector replacement.batterys are hot and she turns over
with out any issue.