what the difference between the 7.3's?
 

What is the difference between the 94.5 - 97 7.3 turbo diesl and the 99 - 03 7.3 turbo?

The engines themselves are basically the same. The 94.5 to 97 has a manual/mechanical fuel pump, smaller turbo, different type of injectors, (single shots), and different IDM' and PCM's to control them. The early 99's are a little different from both of them, but I don't know the specifics. All the engines up to sometime in the year 2000 have forged rods. The later ones have PMR's which don't hold up as good under higher horsepower.

Also, there is about 25hp difference between the older ones and the newer ones. the California models are a little stronger. Manual tranny trucks have 25 more hp than their automatic counterparts.

Here is a good article on the differences ...

Ford's Power Stroke Diesel History - Diesel Tech - Diesel Power Magazine

Ok thank you but not sure what mean by IDM and PCM. Also are the 94.5 - 97 IdI or derect injection?

Direct injection

Injector driver module ?
Powertrain control module

Thanks guys for the info. Now 1 more question, Can I put a chip into the 94.5 -97 engine?

Yes. Here are two of the ones most liked by folks here http://www.totaldieselperformance.com/ DP-Tuner

The later ones also have a intercooler.

you are backwards on teh turbo statement, the 94-97's have a larger turbo. thus why we dont have wastegates on them.


but to make it simple,
mecanical vs electric fuel pump.
angle of attack in hpop is different,
intake manifold are larger on sd's
turbo is wastegated on sd
intercoolers on sd's
single shot vs split shot injectors

X2 what Joe said.
The cool thing is we can add all of the 2000-2003 parts to our trucks. Just need to modify our firewall and make sure to get all of the related parts when we upgrade.

The reason the 97 Cali models are a little stronger than the other OBS trucks is that they got the larger AB code injectors, 120cc split shots that the early 99's have. The other OBS trucks have AA 90cc single shot injectors.

i added a few to Joe's list. the SD's had quite a few more changes to them than ppl recognize b/c they are essentially the same engine. the SD pistons will go in these trucks, but SD rings won't work on our pistons. we cant use the SD crank i don't think, but i gotta look at the difference between the 2 b/c the SD's were weighted differently. there may be more differences. i will look.

we can do anything to the OBS that can be done to the SD's. chips, injectors, turbos, regrind cams(gotta use an SD cam), pistons, rods, girdles, etc. hahahaha

tatsch your list isn't all correct. Only early 99's have 120cc splits, late models have 140cc splits.
Early birds have a 110v IDM, late models have the 120v.
Early 99 compressor wheel, aka wicked wheel, same as OBS
Early 99 has a w/g turbo, but it is physically smaller than the late turbo even though the A/R is the same

this is true. got in a hurry since i'm at work. thanks for the correction. not many people know that the crank, pistons(ring grooves), and rings are different though. haha.

Very true, I wasn't aware of that stuff either. I wonder if the change to the crank came with PMR's? Any chance you have access to an SD forged rod block to compare an OBS, SD forged, and SD PMR crank?

ok hows this. engine serial #576009 and below had lightening holes in the connecting rod pins. engine serial #576010 has a larger radius and no lightening holes. the counterweights are larger on serial# 576010 and above to counteract the extra weight in the connecting rod pin b/c they have no lightening holes.

Note: THE "LARGER" CRANKSHAFTS MAY ONLY BE USED IN CRANKCASES WITH SERIAL #'S HIGHER THAN 571930!!!!!!

the crankcase: the lower section of the crankcase has been modified to allow larger crankshaft counterweights to clear the crankcase. the serial # break for this change is 571930. this change occured on the crankcase prior to the crankshaft and can be used with either crankshaft listed above.

the camshaft: obviously the SD had no mech fuel pump so the fuel pump eccentric lobe was eliminated.

Rings: the intermediate ring width was increased from 0.137" to 0.185" to increase ring tension in the bore in the SD's starting with the E99. The intermediate ring has a larger chamfer on its inside face and increased width to dristinguish it from the prior second ring..... NOTE: THIS INTERMEDIATE RING CANNOT BE USED ON EARLIER(OBS) PISTONS!!!!!

Pistons: the SD piston has a deeper intermediate ring groove to accommodate the new icvreased intermediate ring width... NOTE: PISTONS AND RINGS CANNOT ME INTERCHANGED DUE TO INCREASED AND NARROW INTERMEDIATE RING WIDTHS!!!

Valve cover gasket and UVC harness: the SD harness used a single 9 pin connector on the UVC harness vs the two 5 pin OBS harness to reduce the number of connections and improve reliability

Engine harness: similar to the UVC, the engine harness also has two 9 pin connectors using larger wires and terminals for the glow plugs.

Manifolds and up pipes: the manifolds and up pipes were changed up for use of a common up pipe between "E" and "F" series i believe. On the OBS they were model specific.

Water Pump: water pump seals are dynamic seals. During engine cranking, seepage past the seal occurs. A reservoir was been added to the housing to allow the small amounts of seepage past the seal to accumulate and evaporate.

Thermostat housing: to provide clearance for the IC pipes and improved serviceability the SD has a shorter housing and has a thicker flange with a new seal

Water pump pulley: SD pulley is smaller for faster pump speed and less drag. i believe these mount the same and may be able to be used on an OBS with a different belt as an underdrive pulley?? haha

Single Mass Flywheels: the OBS had the "dual mass" flywheel. SD's had a single mass flywheel and used a 6 speed manual tranny(ZF6) instead of the ZF5 5 speed that the OBS had

17*HPOP: the SD used the 17* HPOP to make up for the use of the larger split shot injectors that the SD's had. the E99 used a 15* HPOP and had 120cc split shots vs 140cc split shots that came in the L99-03's that had the 17* HPOP.

Of course there are IDM's, wastegated turbos, HPOP rez, FPR, quick connect HPO Lines and fittings, fuel bowl that bolted to the HPOP rez, etc which were different from the OBS and SD. feel free to add to this list!!! :D:D:D:D:-partybud

Some good additions in that list!

there are truely a lot more differences between the OBS and the SD than ppl ever think about. LoL. lots of the parts can be interchanged, but i don't think many people really ever think about the differences that are not interchangeable. LoL. b/c nobody cares if its not interchangeable!!! haha.

adding to the list. just found this.

the crankcae was redesigned starting with engine serial number 375549 with thicker valley walls to increase stiffness to the assembly which reduces radiated engine combustion noise. the crankcase was also modded in the tappet shelf area. i knew about the tappet shelf difference, but not the thicker valley.

when you say "SD" do you mean super duty? Also" can you give me some info on electric fuel pump set ups? pros cons etc... thanks

answer to both questions
 

the biggest difference is that the 99 and up are intercooled....yes you can chip the 94.5-97 psd

Yes, its super duty. The electric fuel pump is more reliable and a lot easier to change if it quits. There are kits sold by ventors but some do it themselves.

im new to this stuff but my boss isnt, before we chipped my truck he did a bunch of research and i can say im 100% happy with my TS chip and wide opens tuning. but thats just my opinion. hope it helps!

Welcome to the forums!! i haven't heard from anyone using Zanes tunes, but i can't see them being too bad. i of course use a TS style chip from Tony Wildman with his tunes on it. i love the tunes, but i have a couple things i want him to adjust on it to do with the idle and how the truck acts in certain settings. overall a great chip though.

the electronic systems are much better systems all around when we do them on our trucks. we switch to an electonic pump on the frame rail with a 2 micron pre filter and like a 150 micron post filter. some ppl use a 10 micron post filter, but i feel that is overkill. you then delete the factory fuel bowl and plug the factory mechanical pump hole in the valley. then you reroute how the fuel flows on the engine(i can tell you how to route them if you want) and use an adjustable fuel pressure regulator on the return line so now its a regulated return fuel system. the pros are better fuel filtration, fuel flow, reliability, and it opens up the valley a lot. cons are simply costs and putting it together. i bought mine from dieselsite b/c i didn't want to take the time to find all the fittings and everything to do it. so i bought the dieselsite CPR fuel system which also utilizes a fuel cooler to help things out some as well.. i like the CPR system a lot.

Also yes, SD means super duty. the biggest difference between the OBS and SD is not the intercooling. its the combination of the electric fuel system, split shot injectors(quieter engine and more power), and the PCM allows the engine to run smoother, start smoother, and drop to idle smoother. oh yeah and the HPOP and IC as well. all are important differences between the two engines

Travis, I tried to rep ya for that comprehensive list. But I cannot yet. Somebody please rep him. Heck, everybody rep him. That is an awesome list that I am sure took plenty of time to research. Thanks again for all of your research, Sam.

Hmm as quiet as the Super Doodies are I would think they had a DMF setup still, considering the Dotches of the same time hda DMFs also.

interesting.
The SD's are much quieter as well.
The Split shot injectors and sidewalls like mentioned make them much quieter.

Hmm as quiet as the Super Doodies are I would think they had a DMF setup still, considering the Dotches of the same time hda DMFs also.

interesting.
The SD's are much quieter as well.
The Split shot injectors and sidewalls like mentioned make them much quieter.

William, no 2nd gen dodge i have torn into had a DMF in it and my brother has 3 24v dodges, a '99, a '01, and an '02.

Sam, thanks for the comments there. i actually did no research on that. i have the book that all the ford diesel mechanics got when the SD's came out on the PSD. it lists in there all the differences, how to work on them, special tools, wiring schematics, torque specs list, etc. its the book that they use for when they gotta take their tests on the new trucks. i have read that book about 50 times now b/c it somehow doesn't get old to me. i can post pics if anyone wants. its got a pic for most of the stuff i mentioned up there. LoL. So yeah, the ford mechanics should be much smarter than they are, but i guess since they work for money instead of fun and don't care about the customers trucks like we care for our own they don't turn out to be all that great b/c they are trying to do things as fast as possible. this book is pretty dang good. gonna go read it again now....

Travis, I want one.

pics or the book??? LoL

hmm, friend had issues with his DMF in his 02 24v.
replaced the dmf with smf and had no problems after that.

i'll have to ask ron if he has a dmf or smf if he knows.

Travis, I want the book. Tech manuals like that are my favorite reading material. Real world stuff.

Where did you get this book, and how can I get my hands on one? Very impressive.

ok so what can you take off say an 04 F 350 and bolt up to an obs to add power? because i have almost a complete truck at work that has been taken apart and is just sitting there in pieces.

Thank you travis for all the info. I also want one of those books so where can I my hands on one? I have a buddy that works for ford?

doug, ask your buddy at ford if he can get his hands on one. LoL. My buddy that works at ford had it sitting there and about to throw it away, but decided to give it to me instead. i will ask him if there are anymore of them running around the shop there or maybe i will go poke around there and look for one. LoL. if y'all have any buddys that work at ford they might still have them b/c they got the books in '98 when the SDs were about to come out.

you would have to have parts from a '99-03 7.3L, but the '04 6.0L does have some stuff we can use such as the intercooler. other than that there is nothing except for the seats. you can make the seats work in an OBS.

ok that what i ment. on the PS 7.3 what could i use? and do you know a good place to get the up pipes for the intercooler? i really like the banks kit... until i get to the price.

Travis could you give my a break down of some of the abrivations you use?
I know some but others i'm like:confused:
sd= super duty

Also what is the title of this book? I'm going to call him in a few.

you can modify the SD stock pipes to work and do some modding to fit up the SD intercooler in the OBS. you can use lots of parts off of an SD 7.3 unless you have a 94.5 or 95 model. you can use the cam(if you have electric fuel), heads, pushrods, HPOP, oil cooler, injectors(if you mod them to single shots), etc. lots of stuff there.
HPOP-high pressure oil pump
LPOP-low pressure oil pump
OBS-old body style
ICP-injection control pressure sensor
IPR-injection pressure regulator
HPOP rez- high pressure oil pump reservoir
PSD-powerstroke diesel
WTS-wait to start light
CPS-cam position sensor
CEL-check engine light
EGT-exhaust gas temp.
DP-downpipe

any other ones i have used that you wanna know? i know there are a lot more than i listed, but just a start there. haha