Dual Alternator Bracket for 1997 PSD - FL
 

I would like to add the second alternator to my 1997 PSD so I can charge batteries in my slidein P/U camper. My local dealer does not appear to have the information I need to acquire the bracket for the second alternator commonly referred to as the Ambulance option. Does anyone have part numbers to add this option. Are there any after market sources for the bracket and associated hardware.

Thanks,

pbgsho2

Hey I was thinking of the same thing............for putting a rv air conditioner on my camper shell for my dogs.........using a inverter and stuff.........a extra alternator may put a lot more drag on your engine.........how about a bigger alternator to charge those batteries.........if you look around there are places making really big alternators to replace your original one that will put power into those extra batteries...........seem to remember they are about 400.00 or so...............I'm going to replace mine when my original one goes bye bye or I find a cheap RV unit which ever one comes first.

Dual alternators were not an option on the OBS. The alternator package consisted of a HUGE case 215 amp alternator. It fits the stock location with some trimming of the bracket but it bolts right up. It requires a belt that is a 1/2 inch longer and also requires some wiring changes. I will post some more info on it tonight when I get home

Seems I remember seeing a belt routing diagram that showed 2 alts on a 7.3L. Would that have been for a Super Duty? Why wouldnt it work on an OBS?

Found it

http://www.thedieselstop.com/content...pump15_lg..jpg

Now that I study that pic I see It has no vacuum pump, and the alt and air conditioner compressor are different.

Yep dual alts available on the SD but not on the OBS.
Pictures for the swap
215 Amp Alternator and New Battery Cables pictures from friends & fun photos on webshots
Threads on the swap
215 amp alt belt - Diesel Forum - The Diesel Stop.com
high amp alternator - Diesel Forum - The Diesel Stop.com
Complete details on 215 Amp alternator mod... - Diesel Forum - The Diesel Stop.com
215 amp alt. part # - Diesel Forum - The Diesel Stop.com
130A to 215A alternator swap questions - Diesel Forum - The Diesel Stop.com

how meany amps is the stock alt,

165 I believe

Its a Ford 3G alt rated 130 amps.
I have seen (never used) kits to upgrade the 3G to 200 amp.
HD Reg and rect is needed.

RJM Injection Tech Alternator Accessories & Parts

Bill

From what I understand that's not a good upgrade. More output equals more stress/heat and it doesn't last very long.

Agree. Its a reason why i have not tried it.
Dont know anyone that has used it.
Every 3G failure here has been from the brushes
wearing thru the copper ring.

Bill

Wasn't there an ambulance package with 2 alternators? Probably f350 or higher cab and chassis.

The F350 OBS never came with dual alts. E350 ambulance packages did. The second alt is down low by the CPS.

Dual alts 130A and 95A in the e-series was around year 99/2000.
Before that it was a single 215A (fleet) Standard was 130A.

Bill

I have seen the dual alts on one OBS E350 transit/handicap van but it wasn't a factory item. It was probably developed by the outfitter. By far more complicated than the 215 amp swap

Thanks for all of the comments. I was able to find a 97 Ford disk that showed that the only upgrade on the F-350 truck was to a 200 amp alternator . So my local dealer was correct.
Now I am not so unhappy that I installed a 100 watt solar panel on my roof to charge the batteries. Still I may look at a higher amp alternator as a means of more rapidly charging my camper batteries.

pbgsho2

Several years back my dad had a '96 F250 7.3 4x4 and it definately had dual alternators on it... hmmm

hey my alternator just started kicking the bucket since i installed my new light bar on it for plowing it drops to the " N " NORMAL at an idle but if you raise the RPMs a little bit it climbs slowly and stops between the " MA " in NORMAL tried battery tester or the batts they good i just bought them last winter i believe it is the voltage regulator and saw that i can buy just the regulator on the link mad van posted what do you guys think should i try the regulator? i m really tight on money right now.

Give it a shot. Most local autoparts will have it.
HD version could be a special order.

The oem 130a alt even has trouble to keep up when
the Gp system is on.

Bill

For anyone with questions about this. Just go to your local heavy truck, Class 8 dealer and get one. They have high Amp alternators and you can modify the mounts. BTW/a Peterbilt only uses a 130 AMP altnerator and 2 big batteries, 2100 CCA. That will run all the lights you need and I had all the lights you need, 5 cab mkr, 2 grill mkr, 16 under cab, 2 bumper, 10 aircleaner, 12 mkr on trlr and 9 tail trailer and 2 tail tractor, Fog lights made from Police spotlights, head, brake and turn.

ya the voltage is at like 9 volts when i first start it up. we checked it with the truck warmed up i was plowing all day we came home and checked it at idle and it failed to charge at an idle but if i drive somewhere it goes up where it is suppose too i m guessing it was on its way out a while ago but the new halogen 8 light rotary light bar and 8 head strobe light i just installed finished it off

pbgsho2: The biggest help in charging the camper will be upgrading the charge system. A bigger alternator won't help if it can't get the amps back through the little stock wire.

I upgraded my charge system to 4 gauge wires and it charges far better. I need to put my writeup on here anyway, so I'll put it up and link back here.

With the lights off, our trucks have over 60 amps spare at idle and 100 amps spare at speed.

joe_13894, I have planned to upgrade the charging wire since I will have two additional batteries in the bed as well as the two in the camper. Were the amps you mentioned attained with the stock 130 amp alternator or had you installed a larger alternator? You mention 4 gauge wire"s" so you apparently ran an additional 4 gauge ground wire. Is this correct.
I have a trip planned in the spring during which I will be dry camping frequently not moving the camper for two or three days at a time. The ability to rapidly charge batteries will be important if the sun doesn't shine.
Thanks for your response.
pbgsho2

First off, the wiring diagram:

http://i37.tinypic.com/24w7ntw.jpg

(Note that all pictures as scaled down, but are clickable for a full screen view.)

I had previously put in two golf cart batteries in parallel with the existing 12V deep cycle battery in the stock location.

I'm using 4 gauge wire for all of the power connections between the alternator on the truck and the camper batteries. I debated several locations to tap power, but settled on the alternator to get the maximum voltage in the system to the camper batteries. I measured drops as much as .5V between the alternator and the engine compartment fuse box. I measured .25V between the alternator and the batteries when charging the batteries back up right after the glow plugs kicked off. By going to the alternator direct, no truck wiring is in the equation. For ground, I ran wire up to the front and tied the ground wire to the accessory mount bracket for the passenger side, right under the alternator.

I bought a 100A solenoid from NAPA to isolate the camper and truck. I picked up power for the solenoid from the glow plug relay. It's right near the alternator, and is only powered when the key is on. The PCM grounds the other coil terminal of the relay to turn the glow plugs on. I decided to connect the other terminal of the camper power solenoid coil to the glow plug wires so that the camper solenoid isn't powered when the glow plugs are on. When the glow plugs are off, the solenoid coil grounds through the glow plugs... at 160A nominal draw, the .6A of the coil is trivial. This keeps the camper batteries from trying to feed either the glow plugs or the starter. If they did, it would trip the breaker every time the truck starts. If you're wondering about the diode in the coil wire... it eliminates the possibility of back feeding the coil the wrong way.

For the camper to truck connector:

http://partimages2.genpt.com/partimages/329207.jpg

http://partimages2.genpt.com/partimages/329209.jpg

They are meant for powering lift gates on semi trailers. They are rated for 100 AMPS and take up to 4 gauge wire. To give a sense of scale, they are the same size as semi 7 pin connectors, which are a little bigger than the 7 way RV connector

Both are available from NAPA

Truck end: PHI-15-326, $22.49
Trailer end: PHI-15-336, $18.49

For the other 4 connections, I used a common 4 pin round connection.

Connection at alternator:

http://i35.tinypic.com/sox3lv.jpg

The upper wire is the factory connection, the new one goes out the bottom of output stud.

The control wires for the solenoid slip under the vanity cover, and connect to the glow plug relay:

http://i37.tinypic.com/eu5aag.jpg

I mounted the solenoid and breaker in front of the right battery. It's a pretty well protected location.

http://i38.tinypic.com/2ajrt4n.jpg

The lower wire is the feed from the alternator, and the upper heads back to the camper connector.

Here is the connector ready to load. Both the negative and positive leads are inside the loom.

http://i36.tinypic.com/122j72p.jpg

And now the connectors in place:

http://i33.tinypic.com/2n0vazq.jpg

Behind connector:

http://i33.tinypic.com/25uldea.jpg

The view with the plugs installed:

http://i34.tinypic.com/2wbrfch.jpg

http://i33.tinypic.com/ine8b4.jpg

I used a 4 conductor 14 gauge wire for the light connections. It connects to the 4 pin connector, then runs with the big wire loom up into the camper.

I drilled a hole through the wing of the camper, and ran the loom through:

http://i35.tinypic.com/2zgs2n6.jpg

Behind the converter I have a power distribution block. I now added the two new wires to the distribution block. The 4 conductor cable from the 4 pin connector is spliced into the existing camper wiring:

http://i36.tinypic.com/dc34ab.jpg

After trying it out with batteries near 50%, I got 65A feed from the truck to the camper at idle, with .55V drop... .2V in the negative, .35V in the positive.

The alternator is the stock 135A unit. The current was measured using a clamp on with no loads on in the truck.

nice write up great pics too!

joe_13894, if you were nearby I would buy you a cold one or possibly a case of cold ones. Thanks so much for the diagrams and the pictures. I couldn't ask for more. Felt like you designed the whole system for me since it is exactly what I needed including the Trojan batteries.
Found a good source for the breakers at a cost less than $30.00 ea. and my parts house has the remainder of the items.
I am so pleased that I found FTE and such willing and knowledgable people as yourself. Thank you for the help.
Regards,

pbgsho2

I bought my wiring stuff from Welcome to Waytek Wire except for the wire, solenoid and connectors.

The other stuff came from NAPA. I gave the connector number above. When you get the solenoid, make sure it comes off the "Phillips Heavy Duty" catalog. The solenoid is under $30 there, but over $50 out of the regular catalog.

They have all of the high current circuit breakers at good prices. They also have lugs, and one very useful item is sealing heatshrink. It goes under the name "adhesive heatshrink" on their website. This stuff has hot melt adhesive inside the heatshrink. When you shrink it, the adhesive melts and seals to the wire insulation. It makes the connections last a LOT longer since water can't get into the connection to corrode it. They have kits of heat shrink in bags with cut lengths from little to big diameters for about ~$8. Get several, they're nice to have.

I soldered all of the connections, that way I know they're all low resistance. Make sure that if you do solder, that the wires are secure before you solder. That way they can't slip out if the wire overheats. I just beat the snot out of the lug with a ball peen hammer, and it's plenty tight.

I've been given grief by some that I'm into "way overkill" doing this. But let me tell you, having the big bank of batteries and the ability to charge like heck is really nice.

One more thing about the system I put in:

If you don't already have a good converter, get a Xantrex XADC. The WFCO is pretty good, but the XADC is far better. Either is great at not drying out the batteries, but the XADC hold it's output voltage higher when charging - but it's got a smart algorithm that isn't hard on the batteries.

joe_13894, I have the Progressive Dynamics charger with the Charge Wizard in my Arctic Fox so I do have the three levels of charging. Seems to be a good solution.

I am not sure that I totally follow the charging process so I have an additional question as follows:

1---Today's alternators put out a constant 14.25 plus or minus volts(It varies a bit between mfg.)
2---The alternator senses the Truck Starting Batteries and charges them accordingly..
3---When the Truck Starting Batteries are fully charged,the alternator cuts back on the charging (reduces the amps) so that you do not over/charge the Starting Batteries...
4---The alternator has no idea of the state of the R/V batteries. They may be 30/40/50% discharged,and the alternator will continue to put out just enough amps to keep the Starting Batteries fully charged
..
So how do the R/V batteries get charged if this is the case?

Thanks again,

pbgsho2

On our trucks, yes. On newer Fords, no. The charge voltage on the newest trucks is set by the PCM. The newer trucks have multi-voltage with reduced voltage once the battery charges for longer battery life. Correct. On our trucks, the regulator sense line goes to the alternator fuseable link. There are two paralleled 12 gauge wires that are connected to the starter solenoid. About 6" into the harness, there is a crimp connecting the two wires together. The other side of the crimp connects to a wire going to the regulator "A" terminal and the big output wire of the alternator. The voltage at that crimp will be regulated to remain at 14.25 volts all the time. If you measure elsewhere, it's going to change some due to wire voltage drop. I've noticed quite a bit of drop in the 6 gauge wire going to the fuse block. If you measure inside the cab, the voltage is often a volt low with everything turned on. Once your glow plugs kick off, the alternator is able to pull the truck voltage up to 14.25V in a few seconds unless the batteries are way down. Even then, it's a short time for the truck voltage to hit 14.25V. From then until the truck turns off, the voltage is constant. As the batteries charge, the regulator will turn down the amps, but the key here is that the voltage will always stay the same. The truck will sit at a fixed 14.25V. The camper batteries will draw what they need to charge. The charge current will be determined by the camper battery voltage, camper battery resistance and charge wire resistance. As the camper batteries charge, the current is going to drop. 14.25V is enough to fully charge them, and in fact 14.25V is a bit high for floating batteries, and they will lose water at that voltage. But since you don't drive all the time, the loss won't be too bad.

The solenoid is NAPA PHI 54140, $30

I think I know where this confusion is coming from. Your truck, like mine, has the Superduty tensioner modification. When they put the new tensioner on, the replaced the belt routing sticker with a Superduty belt routing sticker. That's why we have a sticker with the dash line second alternator even though it was never an option on our trucks.

Back when these trucks were still covered under warranty the was an OBS dual pulley belt routing diagram sticker that was used.

That sticker picture is from a SD anyway not an OBS. The shape of the core support is the clue.

Yeah I know and the different locations for for the alt, a/c and lack of vacuum pump also ID it as a SD sticker

Joe mentioned that his OBS had a SD sticker because it was upgraded to the SD dual pulley tensioner and my point was that there was an OBS dual tensioner sticker that was used when the tensioners where changed to the SD style under warranty.

My post was directed at Joe. I should have quoted him.

Sorry for the bad quality, but my camera didn't like the dark.

http://i44.tinypic.com/2vvqoef.jpg

This truck had the tensioner mod done under warranty.

I wonder why they show the second alternator on this diagram if it's strictly for the OBS?

Hmm....I had my 97 done under warranty too, but I don't remember the diagram showing the 2nd alt.

I put the one on the 96 using the TSB info.

Joe I cant read it in the pic, what's the part number on the sticker?