Stoooopid Dually Questions
 

I've never owned a dually but am considering converting to/buying a dually. Here's the thing, I could really use the load capacity and stabilty on occasion but the rest of the time it would just suck for parking, fuel ecconomy, etc. So I'm thinking convert to dually width axles but then only put on the outside rear dual and some extra fender when I need the capacity but the rest of the time just run a single in the rear with the extra fender off? To accomplish this I need axle info.



Some googling gives me some conflicting answers on axle widths. That the dually axle is somewhere between 4.5 and 6 inches wider then the srw axle. Also that even with the wider axle because of the backspacing of the dual wheel to get the same track width I'd need a 2.25-3" spacer between the hub and wheel when running as single. This I have no problem with I figured, I want to add a spacer in back with the SRW setup I have now anyway. I think the width discrepancy comes from the difference between CC dually and pickup dually. As I don't have axles to measure I'm hoping you all can help.


One thing that concerns me with doing something like this is if I will have a big axle hub sticking out from the wheel in that back. With a wider dually axle and running just the inner dually wheel spaced out to match the front will the axle hub still protrude further then the lug nuts? To figure this I need to total width, something I have had no luck finding online.


Been searching as I typed, now I'm reading that the DRW version of the 10.25 is 4" wider then the SRW version and that it's set up for 2.5" springs vs 3" Here is the question I haven't yet been able to find an answer to, where is the extra width added? Or more exactly are the axles themselves longer on the DRW version making the same hub stick out more, or is the hub different, or a combination of both?

How much tire width can fit in a stock DRW F350? This assuming whatever wheels and spacers are needed? So overall width and the spring being the limiting factors? I currently run a 12.5 wide tire and would like to stick with that width tire.

Well the answer is yes and no... maybe this pic will help you
http://i139.photobucket.com/albums/q.../1991_f350.jpg
the axle is wider, you can run a single wheel on it but you will need to leave the dually fender on. you will also have to modify the bed for the dually fender so I don't think you will want to take it off after that. As far as driving, parking and the ect. I drive my 2008 f450 dually every day. You wont need spacers to run a single wheel just bolt them on. I would not run a single dually wheel in the rear just run a non dually wheel in the rear if you want to go with a single.

Seriously? Taking the dually tires off and running singles? What would that accomplish other than waisting your time.

As far as removing the fender? This is what you would be looking at with no dually fender on the bed
http://i108.photobucket.com/albums/n...0/DSC03155.jpg

As for what you need to make a dually out of your truck....
Dually front hubs
Dually PICKUP rear axle(NOT cab-n-chassis)
6 dually rims
A dually bed

Try reading above

Look at this M715 of some kind, this is the basic idea but what I'm really trying to avoid is the axle hubs protruding outside the wheels like that. Do you see what I mean?

https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/a...1&d=1348671238

Just found this; 1997 FORD F250

http://www.americanforcewheels.com/i...1-944x474w.jpg

This is pretty much what I am after when single, then slap on another rear wheel and some kind of flare when needed. This appears to be a rail truck, I'll have to see if I can find what they used axle wise.

Likely a fender flare more like this

http://i1192.photobucket.com/albums/...clearance4.jpg

That's a single rear wheel truck...

Note how far in the inner wheel is... That's where it will sit with the outer wheel off...

Don't mean to rain on your parade here, but have you ever rotated your tires and actually looked at the inside dual by itself? It looks ridiculous. If you're dead set on this I'd try to find some single wheels with the right offset and make it look like a SRW...somehow...

If mileage and driveability is what you're after, 30 seconds on Craigslist will find you a $1500 Ranger.

That extra wheel on each side doesn't make enough of a difference in fuel mileage to say it does.

I give up

Needs 10 letters

OK, time for me to chime in. That's my jeep m715 in front of my shop. I actually owned it for about two weeks, then the guy with title showed up (long story) I was just showing how a lot of trucks back in the day ran the dually type rear wheel as a single. Other than banging my shins once in the last year, I actually like that look. I drive a '59 f350 9' express pickup that I made from parts. First to show up was the 9' flareside box in excellent shape. Then I bought a '59 f350 stakebed to put it on. Did all the research like you did. I parted out a '92 2wd dually pickup for the wheels and rear axle. (sterling 10 1/4). Heres a photo of the box I bought and then the swap onto the stakebed. There is also a pic of the truck that inspired the project, a '53 f350 express, bone stock. The '53 was too original to mod so I sold it to a good home. The '59 now has a cummins 6at 6 cyl turbo diesel, and converted to 8 lug front hubs. And FWIW I like your idea of swapping back and forth between single and dually. It wasn't a stupid question......

TY finally someone that gets it, and somewhat local to, nice trucks. That 53 reminds me of the 56 Studebaker I grew up driving. Cheers :-drink

:-jammin :-X17

I'll sign off with a :-jammin and now for some :-X17 check ya later.......

That black truck with the atcual fender flare is a cab-n-chassi truck. they have a narrower frame and narrower axle THAT is why a fender flare will cover the dual tire.

On a pickup tuck, THAT will NOT work.

You will see ZERO difference in fuel economy with SRW vs DRW

You are diving a 7500lb BRICK. 2 extra tires make no difference/

Go right ahead and try and dzus fasteners . But the drivers bed side would look like this with a DUALLY fender off(becuase of the fuel doors sticking in)
http://i108.photobucket.com/albums/n...0/DSC03156.jpg

I will get into more detail when I get home

O the dually picup axke is 6" wider than a SRW axle

I figured that but THAT does not mean that a flare of that STYLE would not work, it would just have to be wider then that. THAT was the reason I put that pic up. As I said the flare is the easy part, and I'm NOT asking about that. I have a unique solution I'm not going to get into here.

Well that's just plain not true, I'm not going to argue it, nor is it the only reason, or is that a reason not to try for every little gain possible.

Which DRW pickup axle, 10.25 or D70 and of what years? Where is the extra width added? Is the tube and axle 6" wider and the hub the same? Is the wheel mounting surface spaced out in relation to other parts? How wide is it measured at the outside of the bolts/axle flange?

All I really need is info for axle hunting, what is ideal/works for what I'm trying to do? And what trucks I'm going to find it under?

Also the D60 dually hub, tips for finding that? Anything else of something more common that will work?

I guess I see where you're going but not to sure on your results. things to think about is your truck lifted? Clearance for the out side tire with just a flare may not work that's one reason for the big fender. running just the inside dual is going to be narrower that the front track width, and why run spacers to make it up? the difference if fuel mileage is null as said above with the weight of the truck it doesn't matter. A friend of mine had a 96 f350 and he would take off the inside tire for winter in the snow and it made no difference in his fuel mileage. As for semi's taking off the inside tire on trailers its more for the cost of the tire to save wear than the drag. Just my .02 post up some pic's and lets see how your doing

No point to this post

Just a thought .. why not just get some rear dually adapters for your axle and take them off when you don't need them, would save you from buying a new axle. just need rear wheels tires and adapters and what ever flare you come up with.??

From dually D60 hubs..... All you need to do is fins a FORD 4wd Cab-n-chassis from 80-97 and steal the dually hubs off of it

Just need info to pick a path for my future truck spending/mods and what parts to keep an eye out for.

i understand your reasoning for wanting to run SRW primarily and DRW when needed.it would be ideal.if it was simple and affordable they would offer it directly as oem.sadly it isn't so.
fuel economy,traction,and ride comfort are just the few major drawbacks to running DRW.lords knows id run SRW all the time if i could.srw rules everywhere but stability and load capacity.
for those interested,you can check my economy records as srw and drw.
i can save you the time by informing you,it costs thousands more in fuel alone to run a dually vs srw over ownership duration.several thousand when talking about the extra rubber and maintenance of those 2 extra meats.

now,a pickup DRW axle:
https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/p...ctureid=128740
F350 PICKUP (NOT cab n chassis) DRW 10.25 sterling rear axle.the only "TRUE" dually axle.
Greatly wider than the f250HD/F350 SRW pickup and greatly wider than the F350 cab and chassis rear.

you read correctly.the ideal sterling for our trucks (direct bolt in) is the 93-97
however,if you have 3.55 gearing,trust me when i tell you this,they didn't offer it in this particular year,dually axle (and i don't care what yard lists it as so.have them verify it.you'll never find it.)
only 4.10 option.if you sport 4.10's then don't settle.get this 2nd gen and be done.
if 3.55 you would have to grab the 1st gen (pre '93) drw sterling with the short yoke and get a conversion u-joint and older style yoke straps,but otherwise still an easy bolt in deal.i did it.

these axles are much more expensive then the srw and cab n chassis axles.where those are $100-150,these run $500-800.
then on top of that,you need the dually rims.

for you,id suggest leaving the front alone as srw style rims.
for the rear id grab a pair of arrowcraft (the only set id personally ever run) set of rear magnum dually adapters.
Adaptors, Wheels, Duality Fenders and Complete Kits - Arrowcraft :: Helping You Handle the Road for over 30 years!

grab a set of 4 drw rims,the correct lug nuts for them and run those.
when not needed,pull the adapters and run a set of srw rims out back.
you should find a local tire shop/garage willing to mount/remount un/install the adapters for you as needed.
with a full floater you won't have any wheel bearing issues with the rear adapters.your doing it for stability.
i had them in the past (junk ones) and hauled heavy daily for a couple years and still didn't have any wheel bearing issues.
even if you did,it's not the end of the world to change a wheel bearing every 5-10 years for heavens sake.

............

i have to disagree with ya on the cab n chassis axle measures 4" difference than a srw pickup axle Brad.

You are correct. I just went and measured both my SRW and Cab-n-chassis axle. The c-n-c is 1-2" wider(I cant get a good measurement) the SRW axle is 66" face of drum to face of drum


To the OP. you think you need a dually becaus you will be hauling a SINGLE axle trailer? That is finny right there. I have hauled NUMEROUS DUAL axle trailers weighing in at 12-15k with a single wheel pickup with NO PROBLEMS WHAT SO EVER

You ran/run a 10.25 SRW with DRW adapters?

OK stupid question, DRW wheels are hub centric. Is the hub on a DRW 10.25 that hub centric diameter all the way down the length of the hub or stepped up just outside the drum like a SRW axle?

The axle under my '59 is from a '92 2wd dually pickup and the axle under my '92 4wd f350 cab/chassis are exactly the same . Both sterling 10 1/4s, but the axles and axle tubes are considerably longer on the dually pickup version.. I run 'toledo' adapters on the front wheels to convert the old '53-'66 ford better idea 6 lug f350 setup. I cut the 6 lug flange off and bolted th adaptor to the brake drum's 8 on 6.5 pattern. The adapters are high quality cast steel from wheeladapter.com. Cost me 450.00 for the pair. If I remember correctly they measure about 4" in additional offset. A proper dually pickup axle centers the rear inner wheels in any normal rear fender. Keep in mind the early dually pickups seemed to use the typical 8' styleside box with huge fiberglass 'flares' screwed or bolted on. Perhaps an earlier bed with some bolt on dually conversion fenders? I seem to recall JC Whitney selling the kit. Heck, I've even seen suburbans with that kit........Still think easiest way to do the task at hand is to run drw pickup axle, inner wheels when single and the screw on fender and outer duals when going dually. Cordless drill and a lug whench and a jack, and you're good. The railroad crews here run pickups with dually wheels as singles on all 4 corners and I just saw a fedex stepvan, dually wheels on all corners, again as singles. Guess the fedex van uses a dually pickup style axle or perhaps adapters. It's not a new concept. Think of the dodge power wagon for about 25 years. With that hub sticking out, no mazda miata is gonna pull in too close at the grocery store either.......

A cab-n-chassis axle with duals on it will NOT work in a pickup, Not wide enough

As for back handed comments? I am just trying to show you what will work and what will not. I did a TON of research before converting my truck to a dually, I am trying to share my experiences

I'm just glad to have stumbled onto a group that knows and even cares about the differences between dually type axles. I have owned perhaps 25 ford trucks over the last 42 years. Only one of them was a half ton, a '48 'monkey face'. I traded a woodworkers block plane for it and later sold it for 35 bucks. I have spent most of my time on FTE in the 57-60 section, and really enjoy my friends there, but not too many into the bigger stuff. The subject of this thread is of great interest to me.

Ok maybe I'll regret asking but I'll bite, why?

i did yes.but the ones i had didn't have anything for a lip to hold the center hole dead center.bad mistake on my part.didn't hurt anything but my rims,but it sucked.

no.even the drw sterling pickup axle tapers down on the hub very quickly just like the srw version.


he explained why.the axle isn't wide enough.you cannot set an f350 cab n chassis rear under a pickup axle and run duallies.you could move the spring hangers back out where they belong to match your pickup,but you'll be back to where you were.
the reason a cab n chassis can fit duallies with their axle used is because they run skinnier springs and their frame rails spacing is closer together.this is why those rims fit under there.the cab n chassis isn't a pickup.

an f350 cab n chassis axle is of 0% use to you and there is nothing to be done (that would make any sense) to make this axle of any use for what your trying to accomplish.trust Brad.he's correct.

THANK YOU:-jammin

All the numbers I have say it will fit in the truck if I add a wider spring perch, I got it worked out.

that statement as written is incorrect.
though there wouldn't be any point in making them wider for anything.the axle bolts where the axle bolts.wider spring hangers can't help.

it will fit your pickup by moving the spring hangers.that is true.
however you still won't be able to run two dually wheels because the axle isn't wide enough to clear the pickups wider spaced frame and wider springs.you could fit a single wheel on each side and be right back to as if you just kept the srw pickup axle under there.

wish i could figure out a way to re-word it,cus your missing the main point here as to what it takes to run the dual wheels with their offsets.
well lets put it this way if this helps:
ford wouldn't have had the sterling plant make a wider axle for pickup trucks if all they had to do was set the same axle under the truck as they used for their cab n chassis.why would they make two?
they had to make a special wide axle for DRW pickup trucks because the pickups have a wider space between their frame rails.
ever look at a cab n chassis f350? it's frame looks very narrow compared to your truck.this is why a greatly wider axle is required you see,to fit dual rims on the pickup.
anyone any good with paint? i can't sketch via pc worth a lick lol.
edit,i tried explaining a bit more.i think that info here will help you see the mental picture needed.

Then go right ahead, since you know everything.
I'll sit back and laugh my ass off as your FAIL, miserably

OK to me the dually pickup width centers dual type offset rims in a nornal pickup boxe?. Am I off base her

I'm just curious why you're trying to reengineer something Ford spent lots of money to engineer already. Put a dually rear if you want duals but don't argue when several people tell you it won't work. You just don't want to hear it. As far as wanting to pull the duals off is a waste of effort and time. There is no gain in mileage between the two and several of us have said that. Why argue and be a know it all? If you're so smart why ask our advice? Go prove us all wrong then.

I never asked for advice I asked for numbers cause the numbers I was finding weren't consistent and I didn't have axles to measure. Did I actually get any, NOPE, I got BS like your post.

The frame on a CNC truck is not as wide in the back, so you would have to add the wider spring perches farther out on the tubes... but the narrow width of the axle won't allow them to be far enough out to match your frame width.

Better learn to read...




If the SRW axle is 66" that would make a dully PICKUP , wait for it..... 6" wider. Which is 72" TA DA!!!!!!

I don't trust your numbers, you make too many assumptions, they differ from others, are incomplete, and don't make sense. For example your claim that a C-n-C axle won't fit, by YOUR numbers a pickup axle is 6" wider and a C-n-C 4" wider. That would mean only 1" per side of variation between DRW pickup and C-n-C, TA DAAA!! So you only have an inch between your spring and inner tire, that ONE inch makes THAT much difference?

But anyway, I don't want to argue with you, it's pointless.