Hi all,

I just bought a 1968 F600. Was told it has the 391 in it, but vin, as far as I can tell, (it is a C code), is for the 330MD engine. Have to check it out tomorrow. Anyway, my question is, how much can it tow. I have to go transfer and register it soon, and it is easier to get all this stuff taken care of up front. We have to register in combination here (truck weight plus trailer weight). The gross on the truck is 21,000lbs, weighs about 8200 empty. It has dual wheel cylinder brakes, not sure if that tells you guys anything. Ford is less than helpful if you try to get any info from them. They don't even keep records as far back 1995.

I was thinking it should be able to tow in the 22-24,000 lb range. I realize that it is going pull just a little faster than a gimpy snail at that weight, but since I don't have far to go and it is not highway driving, speed isn't too important. That would put me in the 30-32,000 lb combination weight range.

Is this realistic, or should I be looking at a lot lower weight. As I said, not concerned about speed as much as safety.

Thanks for any info,
Jim

 

On my C series, the suggested 22k GVW (models range from a suggested 18k to 23k GVW from Ford) C600 in paticular (1970 model) has a suggested 32k GCWR. This paticular C600 has a tare of 13k so that means that in this case I can tow 19k unloaded or 10k with a full load on the truck without exceeding Fords suggestions.. I see that the F series aree much the same by looking at the manuals.

Note I have said suggested. Both the GVW and the GCWR were mere suggestions back then, and not the absolute figures that we deal with today.

My state (WA) is like yours, BUT in this state if you are not using it commecialy you can generaly skate on licensing for the combined. Mine is not used commercialy so I have it licensed for 26k as the wife does not have a CDL. I am not taking a chance on that one at the scales. Definate gray area here as many roads are limited to 5 or 6 tons - unless delivering - I guess that most in the license dept can't fathom why a non commercial user would have such a large truck.

Mne also has the 330MD, but it is backed up by a six speed Allison MT30 with retarder.

As fas as safety goes, I personaly would not max out any of these trucks with the standard hydralic brakes. I only considered, and found a truck with the optional heavy duty full air brake system. I don't mind climbing a hill at 10 mph, but I sure don't want to set a new land speed record on the downhill side!!!

I hope this helps - David

 

anything over 26001 lbs puts you in the class A category

 

Thanks for the replies.

Yeah, Class A is no problem though. The 32k GCVW is what I figured. I can't see being that heavy, but I want to have a decent margin of error for if I get pulled over. We didn't used to worry about that too much here, but there are a DOT check points set up all over the place now. They even pull pickup trucks in to weigh if you happen to be going by. I had to resister my 3/4 ton at 22,000 lbs just to be safe.

PENNDOT is just great.

Thanks again,
Jim

 

*FMC rules for COMMERCIAL trucks & buses* - Actually 26001 and up is Class B if not towing - example is a 54000 lb crane truck but no trailer - Class B required, not A. If it has air brakes, then you also need the air brake endorsement but still not a Class A.

Another example would be a 70 bbl Vac truck - 48000 lbs with air brakes - Again Class B, but you have to also have the air brake and tanker endoesments. You might also need a Hazmat endorsment if carry more than water or sewage.

Tow any trailer with a GVW of more than 10000 requires a Class A. (10001 lbs and up is exactly how the rules are written)

Then ithere are additional endorsments such as air brakes, tanker, hazmat, etc. There are also the rules on passenger carring trucks such as buses -

Now the gray area is NON commercial - different states ahve different rules as the FMC / FEDS rules only cover COMMERCIAL trucks. In the state of WA - you can drive a 44000 bus with air brakes and have a standard drivers license - provided it is not a commercial rig.

David

 

Jim - I hear ya on this one. This is something that is coming in WA too - I kind of expected it though, seems that we have a whole bunch of people driving now that that have zero idea of the heavy truck / high speed / tire failure issue - and there have been more than a few truck accidents caused by drivers thinking that they can just drive a loaded or towing pickup like a car - and these accidents (hard for me to call them accidents as they were done on purpose by ignorant drivers) including several fatalities.

I guess the old saying about all it takes are a few bad apples -

Maybe they were just sleeping in the basic physics class taught in most junior highs or something !

Good luck - David

 

It is possible to go to 36k before needing a CDL.

No such thing as an "air brake endorsement", in the states.

If you mean behind an otherwise class B truck or as part of a combination that is over 26k then that is correct. Otherwise a trailer over 10k does NOT require a CDL class A.

 

Crete - It is possible to go to 36k before needing a CDL.

Nope sorry it is 26001 and up in the States*


Crete - No such thing as an "air brake endorsement", in the states. You are wrong on this one as well - ANY air brake equiped vehicle does require a additional written test, and a hands on demostable functional understanding of the complete air brake system, including how to check and adjust the slack adjusters.

For passing these tests, your will have a air brake endorsement added to your commercial licence, just like passing the tanker, Hazmat Doubles, Triple and Limo tests will add there respective endorsments as well.




Crete - If you mean behind an otherwise class B truck or as part of a combination that is over 26k then that is correct. Otherwise a trailer over 10k does NOT require a CDL class A.

I am speaking of ANY commercial vehicle, including COMMERCIALY used trucks of less than Class B requirements. Been there and done this one - use a 1 ton piclup COMMERCIALY to tow a trailer that weighs over 10000 lbe, it is technicaly a Class A rig. However, this is a selective enforcement in most states, including mine - DO NOT **** off a COMMERCIAL truck inspector, or you WILL BE CITED for this. It has happened to two of our drivers over the years.

Put that business name or DOT common carrier # on your truck and the whole world changes ..... !

*The ONLY states that have slightly different rules are ALASKA and HAWAII. The majority of these differences pertain to hours of service.

I teach this stuff to the new drivers - sorry this is one area that I do know. In your defense, the FMC rules are fairly lengthly. Add in the individual states rules - and it is pretty hard to know everything.

David

 

Nope, you need to do your homework. Truck with a GVWR of 26k or less towing a trailer with a GVWR of 10 or less, for a GCWR of 36k, only requires a standard drivers license.


You are correct here,

But wrong here. If you don't pass your air brake test or take your road test in a non air equipped vehicle you will receive an air brake restriction.

What is the GVWR of your one ton?

The trailer simply being over 10k does not make it a Class A. The entire combination needs to be over 26k.

Business name or USDOT number has no bearing on drivers license requirements.

The only states, that I am aware of, that have DL requirements that vary from the feds are CA and IL and they only effect their residents in their own states and only when they are in their home states.

My comments are based on Federal regulations.

 

Wow - well rather than continue this - please re read the regulations. Evidently you are not familiar with them.

Amazing that you dont even know the FEDERAL hours of service deviances for Alaska and Hawaii. The lower 48 states have ALL of the same regulations from a Federal standpoint.

Good luck with this. Again, I would highly recommend you reread your book of regulations.

David

Edit - after reareading your responses, it seems that you may be in parts, confusing individual state regulations anf federal regulations and how the federal rules apply to Interstate commerce. You are also confusing commecial and non commercial uses of motorized vehicles. I sure would recommend a reread of the FMC rule book.

 

I am not confusing anything. I have read the regulations and understand them, unlike you. I suggest you brush up on your reading. I am not sure why you keep bring up the hours of service thing since that was never never up for discussion.

I have some highlights for you,

36k GCWR:

Interpretation for Part 383.5: Definitions. - Federal Motor Carrier Safety Administration

Air Brakes:

Part 383.95: Air brake restrictions. - Federal Motor Carrier Safety Administration

Trailers over 10k:

Interpretation for Part 383.91: Commercial motor vehicle groups. - Federal Motor Carrier Safety Administration

So what am I confused about again?

 

can every one please play nice !! from what i know is that any thing over 26001 lbs
with a trailer you need a cdl license , now lets forget about the different classes and endorsements .

my problem has been that i would take a f-250 pu witch has a gvw rating of 8500 lbs
and pulled a trailer that the manufacturer said has a gross weight ratting of 18000 lbs
and it was empty but i got pulled over by the weigh scale boys and was given a ticket
for not having a class A license .
when i went to see judge i was yelling and screaming at him because class A is meant
for semis or big rigs , not your every day pu truck !! well he did throw it out .
all of these freightliners and other rigs that pull a RV that is lets say 30-40 ft long and they dont need a CDL in my opinion some thing is wrong !!

 

That is only partially correct.

Here are the vehicle groups according to the FMCSA.

Part 383.91: Commercial motor vehicle groups. - Federal Motor Carrier Safety Administration

 

What is the matter Dmanlyr? Can't you answer my question?

 

Bump, still waiting. LOL