What would ya'll suggest I get, and who makes/sells the cheapest of either?? I don't do a lot of off-road stuff, but living in Ohio with winter coming, I'd like to make sure I can get thru and be able to pull my wife's car out of the drifts without getting stuck again - kind of embarassing!!

88 F-150 4X4 XLT Lariat w/5.0 EFI 5 spd (DAILY DRIVER)
86 Ranger 2WD w/2.3L EFI 5 spd to be 351W 4bbl C4 (NEW TOY- DETAILS WHEN FINISHED)
85 Old Cutlass Supreme 350/TH350 Holley 4160,Edelbrock Performer intake, el-cheapo headers, General Kinetics 270H series cam, 15.588 best 1/4 mile with original 10 bolt 2.41 gears (OLD TOY)

 

well there aint nothing like a locker and if you do any off-road then you will know what i mean because you don't want one wheel to spin and the other to set there when your trying to go. i suggest that you get a soft-lock by detiort because it handles good on the road and when you need it you'll get the locked traction of a locker.i think it is around 200 something for one. we put one in are 97 ford 4x4 with 9 inches of lift on 38's and we drive it daily and the manners are great. there is a air locker to, which you can disenage until you need it and push the button but it is some money. if your into really slipery situations then i suggest a locker because you are going to need the added traction a posy traction rear end. hopes this helps alittle bit try www.4wheelparts.com and http://www.natltire.com for the price on the locker for your ride .

 

I run a regular Detroit locker in the rear of my 78 with 35's and I don't even notice it on the pavement. I drove it all last winter, I live in northern Michigan, and didn't have problems in the snow. I will admit though, you really have to pay attention driving on icy roads, escpecially up hills, cause the rear end will want to get loose on you. When it does, just let all the way off the gas for a second and slowly accelerate again. After a while you'll get used to it, and nothing beats it for traction! Some people say not to run a locker on the ice but its really not that bad. If your just running smaller tires, and money is a concern, I would use a Lock-Right. They're cheap and you can intall it yourself. I plan on putting one in my front end eventually. Remember, it'll all be worth it the first time you get to pull some yuppie in his SUV out of a ditch this winter.

 

[font size="1" color="#FF0000"]LAST EDITED ON 18-Sep-01 AT 10:46 PM (EST)[/font][p]LS's belong on the track not in the mud. They wont pull much more than open difs. And in 3 tire situations, they will let the free wheel spin. BUT on pavment they work. They also have similar side effects of a locker in the rain/ice/snow. They wont make you change lanes like a locker...which, from what i hear, is really not that bad anyway. All in all, you can't beat a locker for on/off road drivability. They are way better than an open dif but not as extrem as a spool.....drool......my thoughts....

Dan "Mudinford" MacDonald

Rather be pushing a Ford than driving a Chevy.

Like A Rock......In Water!

 

If you do little trail riding and just want good snow performance I'd go w/ a limited slip. Their a little easier to live w/ in the snow and a lot easier to live w/ on dry pavment. My thing is that I would never buy a locker over a spool. I have a spool right now and I drive it all year long. Here in Indiana we get some pretty decent snow too so I can kinda relate. I love my spool and it's very controllable on snow and ice but you have to stay on top if it. If you let your gaurd down and stop paying attion it'll spin you in circles real quick. A locker will have these same characteristics on snow and ice as well. A limited slip still allows dome diferentiation so they're not as "twitchy" but under throttle you will get both wheels pushing you. If you're willing to live w/ some unique driving characteristics and know how to prevent, control and get out of oversteer you can't beat a spool but, if you just want something that's easy to live w/ and will really help you get through, a limited slip works nice.

"like a rock" on the sides of roads everywhere.

72 F-100 4x4. fresh 390 4bbl, NP435 tranny, spooled rear, 2"skyjacker springs front, 2" custom shackle flip rear, "mild" fender trim, 35x15.50 TSL/SX tires.

 

I thought you couldn't run a spool on the road.

88 F-150 4X4 XLT Lariat w/5.0 EFI 5 spd (DAILY DRIVER)
86 Ranger 2WD w/2.3L EFI 5 spd to be 351W 4bbl C4 (NEW TOY- DETAILS WHEN FINISHED)
85 Old Cutlass Supreme 350/TH350 Holley 4160,Edelbrock Performer intake, el-cheapo headers, General Kinetics 270H series cam, 15.588 best 1/4 mile with original 10 bolt 2.41 gears (OLD TOY)

 

O yes you can! You just have to watch you lead foot. It will make noise when cornering (unless you run lower air pressure). But other than that....mild manored. NOW on the front, unless you have manual hubs, i would not spool/weld the front.....haha...good luck finding one also! I have heard that tire wear is not all that much more....just have to keep rotating....anyway...my 2 cents.....

Dan "Mudinford" MacDonald

Rather be pushing a Ford than driving a Chevy.

Like A Rock......In Water!

 

[QUOTE]I thought you couldn't run a spool on the road.[QUOTE]

That's what everyone keeps telling me! Seriously though, their not nearly as bad as people make them out to be. Their not idiot proof by any means but if you use your head their very easy to live w/. Heck, my wife drives the truck around from time to time and I have no problem letting her have the keys. I might be a little leary in the winter as she's never had a RWD vehicle (poor neglicted soul) and a spool on ice is not for novices. I didn't have any problems last winter after I put it in but all I've ever owned is RWD. Their LOADS of fun in the parking lots!


"like a rock" on the sides of roads everywhere.

72 F-100 4x4. fresh 390 4bbl, NP435 tranny, spooled rear, 2"skyjacker springs front, 2" custom shackle flip rear, "mild" fender trim, 35x15.50 TSL/SX tires.

 

[font size="1" color="#FF0000"]LAST EDITED ON 22-Sep-01 AT 10:51 PM (EST)[/font][p]So which one is cheaper of the two - locker or limited slip (and which brand)? The spool I am just too leary of for a daily driver with 31x10.5/15 radials. I think I do too much city driving for that with a lot of tight turns.

88 F-150 4X4 XLT Lariat w/5.0 EFI 5 spd (DAILY DRIVER)
86 Ranger 2WD w/2.3L EFI 5 spd to be 351W 4bbl C4 (NEW TOY- DETAILS WHEN FINISHED)
85 Old Cutlass Supreme 350/TH350 Holley 4160,Edelbrock Performer intake, el-cheapo headers, General Kinetics 270H series cam, 15.588 best 1/4 mile with original 10 bolt 2.41 gears (OLD TOY)

 

LS and a locker have a difference in price of almost half with the locker being more costly. BUT i would have to side with the locker due to the fact that its an install and forget. A LS you have to add an additive(s) and have the potential of wareing it out after heavy use...like i would assume you plain on doing....useing it. You can rebuild...but..... I would go with the locker if you plain on off roading and want to use it in any thick mud. Do you want some traction or alot of traction? Short of a spool its the best option....you can also get a lock right but not as strong as a full locker. BUT cheeper...and if you dont over do it, i dont see a prob.

Dan "Mudinford" MacDonald

Rather be pushing a Ford than driving a Chevy.

Like A Rock......In Water!

 

[font size="1" color="#FF0000"]LAST EDITED ON 24-Sep-01 AT 07:03 PM (EST)[/font][p]I don't plan on taking it off-road to the extreme of rock-crawling or mud bogging. I drive on pavement 99% of the time, it's just that I would like something better than 2 wheels on my 4-wheel drive truck trying to get me thru the snow and maybe occaisionally some mud. I do like the idea of the type of locker that you replace spider gears with. I know that style isn't bomb-proof, but it is cheaper. Like I said before on my first post, I had to pull my wife's Prism out of the snowdrift in our driveway, and I just sat there and spun. I was kind of embarrassed when the neighbor had to help me push my truck out of the drift so we could push her out.
One other thing I was told is that you don't want a locker in both axles-hurts steering and traction or something like that. What about a L/S in front and locker in rear? What would be the best combo for all-around traction and performance in all situations?

88 F-150 4X4 XLT Lariat w/5.0 EFI 5 spd (DAILY DRIVER)
86 Ranger 2WD w/2.3L EFI 5 spd to be 351W 4bbl C4 (NEW TOY- DETAILS WHEN FINISHED)
85 Old Cutlass Supreme 350/TH350 Holley 4160,Edelbrock Performer intake, el-cheapo headers, General Kinetics 270H series cam, 15.588 best 1/4 mile with original 10 bolt 2.41 gears (OLD TOY)

 

You said it...a LS in the front and a locker would be best for all around traction for an all terrain driving style. See, if you have a locker in the front and rear, when you hit an off camber situation, your down the hill. But with a LS in the front you should have one tire that is semi-dead that would give you a little more traction.....if it aint spinning...it will hold you on the side of the hill....kinda like ice..that is probly the only off road situation that lockers would hurt you off-road. But your not to smart if you let your self get in that situation in the first place on a slick hill. Lockers are not hard on the street. I would do it...even if you go with a lock right. For your use....i would say that would be a good choice. Anyway...hope that helped....

Dan "Mudinford" MacDonald

Rather be pushing a Ford than driving a Chevy.

Like A Rock......In Water!

 

Well, my only experience with lockers was a Detroit in the back of my mustang, it made a lot of noise, and you can feel them lock and unlock as you get on and off the gas, got rid of the car before I could drive it in the wet. It's quirks didn't really bother me though.

If you pay attention and go easy on the turns when wet/icy a locker should be alright. The Detroit locker is bulletproof(next strongest compared to posi probably), they've been around forever and run approx. $400 depending on your differential, with most applications available. The Detroit replaces your entire carrier, and is harder to install. If you don't like the the noise n'stuff there are versions out there that are supposed to have less quirks.

There are kinds of lockers that just replace your spider gears, they are cheaper, easier to install, but weaker.

Lockers in the front can make steering more difficult(especially with large tires), and are a lot harder on your u-joints and axles. But this is more of a problem when doing more heavy duty offroading, i.e. rock crawling, but you say you're on road 99% of the time so I wouldn't worry about it too much.

There are two types of limited slip traction devices ones that use clutches, and ones that don't, simple. The kind that use cluthes wear out, but you can replace them. You usually have to add some sort of "friction modifier" to the diff. fluid too. There are types that use gears, so they don't wear out like clutches, and you don't have to use any additives.

Limited slip devices tend to be cheaper, and are much more forgiving in wet/icy conditions. They won't put as much power to the ground though, some have options for the torque bias ratios too. If you are in a situation where one wheel is in the air(no resistance at all) then the other wheel will provide no power. You can "fool" the diff. though by using light brake pressure to provide resitance to the wheel in the air so power is transfered to the grounded tire. I'd recommed the Detroit Truetrac if you're going limited slip, it's the gear type, and is supposed to be pretty bulletproof.

I belive you already said no posi/spool, so I won't go into it. I think you made the right choice though, excesive tire wear, and it'll kill you in the rain. Great at the strip though.

Last there are the type of diffs. that run open untill you manually engage it, and then it becomes a spool. There are three types:

The ARB air locker. Uses compressed air to engage the differential. This has been around the longest. It is expensive, approx $900. You have to buy an air compressor as well as the diff. carrier. If it is not installed exactly right, it won't work, or will stop working quickly. It's not so much mechanical problems, it's the sealing, if you don't have compressed air in the diff. then you're left with a regular open diff. If it is installed correctly it is supposed to be great, a number of off roaders use them. You also have to watch where you route your air line so it doesn't get caught or melted through.

The OX locker(I think that's what it's called) It is simpler, and cheaper than the ARB. It uses a cable(like a manual choke) to engage it. It is relatively new, and I havn't heard how durable it is, or if there are any problems. It was installed in an issue of Peterson's Four Wheel and Off Road fairly recently, might inquire on there website. The diff. cover is integral to the mechanism, it is very large and beefy, but I don't know if I like anything being integral with the cover, especially when it can be bashed on the trail. I assume because of the cover issue, it is not made for the Ford 9". Might only be available for the Dana 44 unless they've realesed a new version. I don't quite remember but I think it was mainly desighned for the front diff.

The Detroit Electrac. This one sounds like the best of them all, too bad it's not out yet(www.tractech.com for updates). It is basically the Detroit Truetrac clutchless limited slip diff. with some sort of electronically engaged mechanism that turns it into a spool. So you have a full time limited slip that switches to a spool, you never have to run open, yay! And no cluthes to wear out, no compressed air lines that leak, just a wire(or two, don't know, doesn't say). I'm all giddy like a school girl waiting for this one to debut. The website doesn't say when it's coming, or what it's first going to be available for, just gotta wait. And no clue as to pricing yet either. Like I said before, the Detroit Truetrack is supossed to be pretty strong, so this device looks like it has some real potential.

That's about all I know, sorry for the long post. I recommend a limited slip in front, and if you're willing to wait, go for the Electrack in the rear. If someone who can't handle a truck thats fishtailing is driving the car, don't get a locker, or don't let them drive when it's wet or icy. But lockers are great if you can deal with their quirks and stay on top of them. Have fun with it all, read, research, if you can find someone with a locker and drive their car that would be great. Talk to people who live in your conditions, and learn from their experiences. I'd assume you still have some time before it starts snowing(I live in Sac. CA)so take some time to research.

No matter what, do the installation correctly. If you're doing the kind that just replace the spider gears, it should be pretty easy because you don't change any...well anything really, pull spiders put in device, put back it truck. No need for dail indicators, or checking tooth patters, or setting backlash. Unless you want to to make sure everything is in spec. If you are doing the kind that replace your entire carrier, then you have to remove and press on the old/new bearings. Shim everthing, set backlash, check your tooth pattern. It can be quite involved. If you don't have the time/skill/tools /will/patience to completely tear down the diff. and put it back together, have a good shop do it. A place that does a lot of off road work probably does a lot of differential conversions.

Now is also a good time to do other stuff like replace bearings, or if you would like to change gear ratios. Leave room in the budget for stuff you might HAVE to replace, like if your gears are worn or your bearings are bad. Good Luck!

All that said, ever consider investing in a good winch?

 

[font size="1" color="#FF0000"]LAST EDITED ON 26-Sep-01 AT 01:24 AM (EST)[/font][p]And on the 25th day, God made information......and it was good.......

They said that the OX was even more bomb proof than any they have seen. I would assume it would only work with the axles with covers due to the point you covered. BUT man...never hear of the other locker....going to keep my ears and eyes open on that one......i just didnt like the idea of an air line....one more thing to go wrong....anyway...great info.....

Dan "Mudinford" MacDonald

Rather be pushing a Ford than driving a Chevy.

Like A Rock......In Water!