Starting her up after a ride
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Junior User
Joined: Oct 2006
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Starting her up after a ride
I have now had this problem twice. The truck is a 66 with a 300 6cyl. The alternator, voltage regulator and starter solonoid are all new. The battery is new also, but it may have been mildly harmed when the old alternator was in use. Here's the problem.
Truck starts up fine in the morning after sitting for a day or even a week. If I drive it 10 minutes and turn it off, say a grocery store run, she'll start right up when I get back. So, around the town, she seems fine. Twice, though, I have driven a half an hour or more, gotten to my destination, turned her off, and then tried to restart her after maybe 20 minutes or so, and she barely will turn over. After three or four cranks, she's done. The battery seems completely out. Had to jump start her both times, and both times the jump start was tough. Upon initially connecting the cables, it still barely turned over, then after about five minutes of sitting she started.
Any insight?
Truck starts up fine in the morning after sitting for a day or even a week. If I drive it 10 minutes and turn it off, say a grocery store run, she'll start right up when I get back. So, around the town, she seems fine. Twice, though, I have driven a half an hour or more, gotten to my destination, turned her off, and then tried to restart her after maybe 20 minutes or so, and she barely will turn over. After three or four cranks, she's done. The battery seems completely out. Had to jump start her both times, and both times the jump start was tough. Upon initially connecting the cables, it still barely turned over, then after about five minutes of sitting she started.
Any insight?
Post Fiend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 14,325
Likes: 14
From: Island Southeast Alaska
Pull one batt cable off when batt is hot. Neg cable. If it sparks or arcs when you touch it to post than you have a current draw. Do this with key of and no dome light or anything on.
Disconnect cable while engine is running at fast idle. If engine dies than alt or regulator is bad. If no current draw and alt/reg test OK than replace battery
Disconnect cable while engine is running at fast idle. If engine dies than alt or regulator is bad. If no current draw and alt/reg test OK than replace battery
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Junior User
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I forgot to mention that the battery cables are new too so there is no corrosion there. Tell me more about the starter and heat buildup.
How is the starter drawing power once the engine is running? How do you test the starter?
How is the starter drawing power once the engine is running? How do you test the starter?
Lead Driver
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 8,062
Likes: 35
From: Central Oregon
If you pull the starter off, alot of parts houses will test them for power draw. The starter does not draw power once the engine is running, but the heat build up will make it draw more power to turn over the engine, making it seem like the battery is low.
Posting Guru
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 1,793
Likes: 2
From: San Diego CA
Generally its a problem you see with big blocks especially running headers. The starter is full of copper a real good heat sink. It will suckup the heat from the exhaust and cause it to draw extra power to turn. If your battery is weak it just compounds the problem. If you've replaced the starter make sure you got a good quality one. The ones at pepkragencheckerzone make good doorstops and chockblocks. I recomend a Napa unit.
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Tuned
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 265
Likes: 5
From: Massachusetts
I agree w/ Cobraguy.
My '72 Mach-1 had the same issue...and like an idiot I lived with it for a number of years. Started fine cold. Barely cranked over when hot (but fortunately, had enough to fire). I replaced the starter w/ a NEW one (not rebuilt) from NAPA and now she cranks great no matter what.
Mach-1 engine is stock (cast iron manifolds) and doesn't qualify as a big block (though probably generates more heat than your 300).
Sounds like the starter is the only piece you haven't replaced...so it's likely the cause.
My '72 Mach-1 had the same issue...and like an idiot I lived with it for a number of years. Started fine cold. Barely cranked over when hot (but fortunately, had enough to fire). I replaced the starter w/ a NEW one (not rebuilt) from NAPA and now she cranks great no matter what.
Mach-1 engine is stock (cast iron manifolds) and doesn't qualify as a big block (though probably generates more heat than your 300).
Sounds like the starter is the only piece you haven't replaced...so it's likely the cause.
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I wanted to get back to the board on this one with an update and a question.
So I went to NAPA and picked up a starter. The first starter they gave me was for an automatic transmission and didn't fit. So, I went back to NAPA and got another starter. I intstalled it last night.
The good news is that fits and seems to have much more power than my old one. I am convinced now that the old one was on its last legs.
The bad news is that after the engine starts up, there is an awful and loud metal grating noise and whine which goes away eventually--say after 10 seconds--after I rev the engine. My initial hunch is that the starter is not disengaging.
If the starter isn't disengaging, do I need to go back to NAPA and get yet another one because this is an internal problem with the starter and it's defective, or is this symptomatic of something else? By comparison, using my old starter never produced this blood curdling noise.
So I went to NAPA and picked up a starter. The first starter they gave me was for an automatic transmission and didn't fit. So, I went back to NAPA and got another starter. I intstalled it last night.
The good news is that fits and seems to have much more power than my old one. I am convinced now that the old one was on its last legs.
The bad news is that after the engine starts up, there is an awful and loud metal grating noise and whine which goes away eventually--say after 10 seconds--after I rev the engine. My initial hunch is that the starter is not disengaging.
If the starter isn't disengaging, do I need to go back to NAPA and get yet another one because this is an internal problem with the starter and it's defective, or is this symptomatic of something else? By comparison, using my old starter never produced this blood curdling noise.
Post Fiend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 14,325
Likes: 14
From: Island Southeast Alaska
I have found that the indexing plate will waller a bit and have to roll starter away from flywheel to cure this problem. It only takes a fraction of an inch to cause them to bind.
Loosen bolts and see if ya can roll it just a hair.
Loosen bolts and see if ya can roll it just a hair.
Postmaster
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 3,613
Likes: 6
From: Coal country
Yeah, AYB has an excellent idea, I had forgotten about that trick.
Just roll the starter away from the engine, if you can. Actually, the better description might be to "rotate" it away. The metal backing plate between the engine and the bellhousingis supposed to center it.
Just roll the starter away from the engine, if you can. Actually, the better description might be to "rotate" it away. The metal backing plate between the engine and the bellhousingis supposed to center it.
Post Fiend
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 14,325
Likes: 14
From: Island Southeast Alaska
Yup ya got it. The tin like plate between the bell and engine is called an indexing plate and is there only to index, or line up starter. If it was left out after an engine R&R the starter will still work but ya got to line it up manually. Some I have seen new with to big a hole in them for some after market end frames. Like the FA18 ya see flying over. It was manufactured by the lowest bidder.